Sport Pilot Talk

frfly172 · Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 67 Location: Quincy Mass

How many people believe some of the light sports are pricing themselves out of the market.Remos seems to be headed that way the glossy ads in all major pubs cant help.Time to stop blaming the euro is light sport going the vway of GA with their pricing schedules.

chrisw · Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 19 Location: San Jose, CA

frfly172 wrote: How many people believe some of the light sports are pricing themselves out of the market.Remos seems to be headed that way the glossy ads in all major pubs cant help.Time to stop blaming the euro is light sport going the vway of GA with their pricing schedules.

I have to confess that some of the pricing has taken my breath away. It's not beyond imagination to spend $140-150k for a two-seat, 120kt LSA, when for that same money you could get a well-used 4-seat 170kt Bonanza or Mooney. No the old aircraft wouldn't have a glass panel or any warranty (do LSA's come with warranties?), and one could certainly argue that they're not as safe as the LSA's (faster, more complex, no BRS, etc.) or as inexpensive to operate. But I totally agree with the "stop blaming the Euro" notion -- that was what took them from $75k to $100k a few years ago. Where's the rest coming from is what I want to know. And how much of a depreciation hit will one take in buying a new LSA today?

Chris

KSCessnaDriver · Joined: 25 Jan 2009 Posts: 150 Location: KOJC

You know, they have to sell the airplanes for a profit. I hate to say it, but people always like to complain about how all the new S-LSA's are well over 100K, while it simply isn't true. There are brand new, factory built S-LSA's out there for right around $60,000. Heck, there are a few probably down in the $30-40,000 range. But, people only want to look at the shiny new airplane, with every feature known to man on them. If you keep the planes to day VFR, prices aren't as bad. Even on a Remos, Flight Design, Tecnam, Piper, and others, Day VFR isn't nearly as high priced as a fully loaded airplane.

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 199 Location: Albuquerque, NM

KSCessnaDriver wrote: There are brand new, factory built S-LSA's out there for right around $60,000. Heck, there are a few probably down in the $30-40,000 range.
It would really help if you were more specific. I would love to hear about a $30k ariplane. So far, the cheapest I could find was Hornet, starting at $65k with no doors. I suppose it is a fine airplane for what it is, but still, it's a far cry from the supposed $30k on one side and from airplanes with doors on the other side.

I have to wonder what the users of powered parachutes paid in the recent years. If they experienced a similarly major price hike, it would clearly be something other than just Euro.

-- Pete

KSCessnaDriver · Joined: 25 Jan 2009 Posts: 150 Location: KOJC

zaitcev wrote:
It would really help if you were more specific. I would love to hear about a $30k ariplane. So far, the cheapest I could find was Hornet, starting at $65k with no doors. I suppose it is a fine airplane for what it is, but still, it's a far cry from the supposed $30k on one side and from airplanes with doors on the other side.

I have to wonder what the users of powered parachutes paid in the recent years. If they experienced a similarly major price hike, it would clearly be something other than just Euro.

-- Pete

First, as a "real" airplane, the X-Air starts at 59,995 (http://www.x-airlsa.com/X-Air/Welcome.html). Nice little airplane, but I'm not sure you could really use it in the flight school environment. You can even start getting into some of the "Fox" model aircraft for that. The Apollo Fox LSA is $67,500 (http://www.apollo-fox.com/).

As for around 30K, M Squared Breese 2 (http://www.msquaredaircraft.com/). They advertise it as factory built for $35,000. Not really something that everyone wants to fly, but its out there.

tadel001 · Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 251

When the LSAs starting coming the US, the exchange rate was very favorable. A Euro was equal to a dollar. You had a number of airplanes for less than $100K. Then the euro jumped and now at $1.40 to the euro, you see a 40% increase. On top of that, the engine companies (not just Rotax) keep increasing the cost of the engines.

If the US could fight the Euro back to even with the dollar, you would have a lot of better priced airplanes.

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 199 Location: Albuquerque, NM

KSCessnaDriver wrote: First, as a "real" airplane, the X-Air starts at 59,995 (http://www.x-airlsa.com/X-Air/Welcome.html). Nice little airplane, but I'm not sure you could really use it in the flight school environment. You can even start getting into some of the "Fox" model aircraft for that. The Apollo Fox LSA is $67,500 (http://www.apollo-fox.com/).

As for around 30K, M Squared Breese 2 (http://www.msquaredaircraft.com/). They advertise it as factory built for $35,000. Not really something that everyone wants to fly, but its out there.
Thanks, that helps. I missed M-Squared Breese because apparently both DS and SS are E-LSAs, not S-LSA that I considered (according to SportPilot.org).

-- Pete

FastEddieB · Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 186 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Quote: No the old aircraft wouldn't have a glass panel...no BRS...

Used Cirrus SR20's are starting to be available in that price range, some of which have glass panels and all of which have BRS's.

My Sky Arrow was $75,500 nicely equipped three years ago. I think that same plane now is closer to $96,000. At THAT price point I likely would have seriously considered new or lightly-used Citabrias or even a Maule, but they're not LSA-certified if one needed that, and fuel costs on at least the Maule would be a lot higher.

KSCessnaDriver · Joined: 25 Jan 2009 Posts: 150 Location: KOJC

zaitcev wrote: Thanks, that helps. I missed M-Squared Breese because apparently both DS and SS are E-LSAs, not S-LSA that I considered (according to SportPilot.org).

-- Pete
I wasn't totally sure if the Bresse was a E-LSA or an S-LSA. I assumed they were E-LSA's, but you never know. Not something that I'd be interested in flying, but everyone has different opinions on things.