The video says it all

[Daidalos]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=835_1344412426

[ct4me]

wow... after the World's longest take-off roll, I would have called it quits. With 4 souls aboard that thing had to be over-gross. In the description, they say they "lost altitude", heck they never got more than about 20 feet above the trees. All altitude gained was offset by the rising terrain. 'Glad they all made it out!
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 5804&key=1

[Daidalos]

It seems like it lifted off and settled back to runway during the takeoff run. It did seem like long run.

[ussyorktown]

I didn't want to comment as I am so green. But as I've reported earlier, when I could only ascend at 100 fpm, I turned around and landed. This guy didn't seem to be able to do even that?
"There are no accidents."

So 99% of the people who contribute on this board would say this was an "accident" waiting to happen. The accident was overloading on a hot day-not the flying into the trees.

When his buddies show this video around, the pilot better check his insurance-this is pure negligence on his part. (in fact, it is negligence per se because he violated the law and the only thing plaintiffs have to prove are their damages)

Negligence Per Se
Negligence due to the violation of a law meant to protect the public, such as a speed limit or building code. Unlike ordinary negligence, a plaintiff alleging negligence per se need not prove that a reasonable person should have acted differently -- the conduct is automatically considered negligent, and the focus of the suit will be over whether it proximately caused damage to the plaintiff. Nolo Press

[comperini]

So Yorktown.. Did you notice the pilot even had an IPad in front of him? Maybe he'll sue you because your preferred landing aid didn't work for him.

[drseti]

It seems like it lifted off and settled back to runway during the takeoff run.

Yep. First time you settle back to the runway after rotation, if there's sufficient runway length ahead of you, is the time to abort the takeoff. Even more important is to pick a decision point halfway down the runway. If not airborne by then, you can safely abort. (Note that this isn't practical on some short fields. But LSAs almost always take off from runways at least twice as long as they need for a takeoff, so it's not a bad rule to establish.)

[drseti]

Negligence Per Se

Thanks for the definition, Counsellor. I learn a lot from these threads!

[ussyorktown]

the pilot even had an IPad in front of him?

Can't you read what the IPad says? "You're overweight you dumb ass!" They are amazing little devises.

[ibgarrett]

Actually I think the iPad had a weight and balance app up on it and he was doing the calculations on how much runway he should've needed and why he was still on the ground after 2 miles...

[ussyorktown]

I'm going to go all Harry Reid here and quote "some guy" on "another board" who "sounds very believable" who said:

25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande and crashed on snowy runway because he didn't calculate how much fuel he would actually use to get over the moutains. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

Here's a screen shot of his iPad at the time of the impact.

[CBKERR]

Dan, I appreciate your sense of humer.

[ussyorktown]

Valley County Sheriff’s officials say a 1947 single engine prop plane with four people inside crashed shortly after take off at the Bruce Meadows Airport around 3:30 p.m. Saturday when it hit some trees.

The pilot and owner of the plane, 70-year-old Les Gropp (not related to Forrest Gump , was listed in serious condition Monday morning at Saint Alphonsus Regional Medical Center. Valley County Sheriff’s Lt. Daniel Smith said it appears Gropp suffered some serious face injuries in the crash but those did not appear to be life-threatening.

Gropp retired from the Idaho Army National Guard in 1995 after 31 years of service. Gropp was a chief warrant officer when he retired, officials said Monday.

Co-pilot Nathan Williams, 41, of Boise, was taken with Gropp to the hospital following the crash Saturday but he was treated and released that day. Two other people in the plane — 38-year-old Tol Gropp and 41-year-old Alexander Arhets — did not need to go to the hospital after the crash, according to reports.

Investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board are expected to be in Valley County Monday to investigate what happened.

Witnesses say the plane, a single engine 1947 Stinson 108 with a manufacturing date of 1947, appeared to have a hard time getting off the ground during takeoff. The landing gear hit some trees near the end of the runway and the force of that impact flipped the plane over, which caused it to land on the top a short distance away, according to sheriff’s reports.

The crash occurred about 3:30 p.m. Saturday near the intersection of Forest Service Roads 579 and 582 in the Bear Valley area.

An air ambulance got to the crash site first and took both Gropp and Williams to Boise for treatment, according to reports.

For Williams, it was his first time in a small aircraft, which was something he had always wanted to do.

"It was my turn to be in the front seat and I was really excited about that," Williams told ABCNews.com.

Williams and Arhets had both recently purchased small GoPro video cameras and were videotaping the flight.

When the plane got somewhere between 70 and 100 feet over the tree-line after takeoff, it wouldn't go any higher and began to seem as though it was being pushed down to the earth.

"You could feel it kind of waving down, waving down and the trees just coming up closer and closer to the wings," Arhets said, speaking by phone from Orlando, Fla., where he is celebrating his daughter's high school graduation.

"The pilot said, 'Brace for the trees,' so we turned and then all of a sudden he started hitting the trees, hitting the wings.

"The plane started turning and hit head on, running into the trees and then rolled over and landed on its nose and roof and skidded to a stop."

The video shows angles from two cameras and the front of the plane can be seen crashing into the trees, sending pieces of the tree exploding into the air.

Arhets said that, to him, the crash seemed to happen in slow motion and that he was much calmer that he could have imagined he would be in such a terrifying situation.

"You could see the debris and parts of the windshield and dirt and sticks flying into the cabin," he recalled. "We came to a rest and stopped and everyone was kind of moving their hands and feet and fingers and toes and all asking each other, 'Are you OK?' And everyone was OK."

"OK as far as alive, anyways," Arhets added.

Tol Gropp said that crashing into the trees sounded like "rapid gun fire" and that, for him, the crash happened quickly.

"The next thing I really remember is being on the ground upside down, hanging from our seatbelts," he told ABCNews.com.

All four men were able to exit the plane through the pilot's door and they assessed their injuries outside the plane.

Les Gropp, Tol Gropp's father, suffered the most serious injuries. The video shows Gropp on the ground with his head propped up on a tree branch with cuts and blood all over his face and arm. He appears to have a deep cut from his mouth across his cheek and towards his neck.

The men, all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, gathered some foliage to perform blessings on Gropp and Williams, who seemed to have the most serious injuries.

Within 10 minutes, a couple that had been driving nearby came rushing into the woods, saying they had seen what happened. The couple gave the men the supplies they had and then left to get help.

Soon enough, four retired firefighters, a paramedic, EMTs, trucks from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management and a Life Flight helicopter were all on scene. Les Gropp and Williams were both transported to the hospital via helicopter and Tol Gropp and Arhets rode to the hospital with EMTs.

Les Gropp had 13 metal plates installed throughout his face, but is doing well. Williams suffered a concussion and Arhets and Tol Gropp had minor cuts and bruises.


The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash and has the plane secured in a storage facility for further examination, the agency said in a preliminary report. The passengers believe the plane experienced a downdraft, a dangerous, vertical movement of air caused by the weather.

Arhets said the men are all amazed to be alive and grateful for all the help they received. He is at Disney World, fully aware of how close he came to missing the celebration.

"I'm ecstatic to be here," he said. "Life takes on a whole new meaning."

[ussyorktown]

I'll just leave these here.

[Daidalos]

I've watched the video several times. Then it occurred to me that they must have been taking off into the wind, other wise it would have been a downwind take off. That would be a dig mistake.

If taking off into the wind, then as they were approaching the ridge in the video they would be on the leeward side or downwind from the mountains. Depending upon how strong the winds were, there are always downdrafts on the leeward side.

Anyone who has flown over mountains has experienced this. Not to mention a soft field on a warm day at high altitude (over 6000').

I don't want to sound harsh but this was poor judgement at best. I've done some dumb things in my time, but I am 61 years old and can tell you the saying is very true;

There are bold pilots,
and there are bold pilots,
but there are no old bold pilots.

This guy was old and should have know better. I feel sorry for his passengers who described looking forward to a plane ride. He makes us all look bad!

[ussyorktown]

Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.
--- E. Hamilton Lee
1882 to 1994 Never had an "accident"




By the way, WTF with all these cameras? Went flying with a buddy and I'm doing some fancy dancing to get on the ground on final and he is snapping pics out his side window, out his front window and then HE STICKS THE CAMERA IN FRONT OF MY FACE TO GET A SHOT OUT MY WINDOW!
Passengers think they are watching some sort of very realistic 3D airplane movie until a pine cone violates their sanctum santorium (final end of the alimentary canal) at high speed and at altitude.