Krusty and The kid

Constructive topics of interest related to aviation that do not match the other section descriptions below (as long as it is somewhat related to aviation, flying, learning to fly, sport pilot, light sport aircraft, etc.). Please, advertisements for Viagra will be promptly deleted!"

Moderator: drseti

yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

Krusty and The kid

Post by yozz25 »

Perhaps I can do things on a lighter note with tongue and cheek.

Here goes:

I now am the proud owner of 14.7 hours of flight time/training.

My first CFI was The Kid, 23 year old out of the local flight school.His boss told me to keep him busy. Interesting. So my first few flights with him were grueling, as he put me through the normal paces.

My only problem, flying the warrior to start, at the beginning, was the "death grip" I had on yoke. It was a feeling that the craft will fall out of the sky. I was determined to "cure" it. Used a magic flight potion at about the 3rd lesson, and didn't care if the plane did cartwheels, got rid of the potion thereafter and became one with the warrior, death grip gone. yee hawww!!!!!!

In any case, went out with kid, did many many pattern touch and goes, where he told me I was doing ok, but I somehow felt there was more to it. I wasnt happy with me.

The Kid became popular with the local girlies and so his schedule was filling up, the other instructors seemed possibly to resent him, and even me for hanging with him.

What to do? Felt like a fool at local fight school, needed some better insight in landings.

So I went to airport lounge and found a business card with Krusty as the CFI. Not his real name, but I gave him this cause yes he is past social security, approaching depends, but still wants to fly and can teach me a thing or two.

Wednesday I flew Air Krusty.

Krusty has a two seat Tomahawk. Strapped myself in, and told him what I learnt from "The Kid". He went into the good ole whippersnapper routine, "Darn youngins, don't teach no stick und rudder"

I felt the rudder pedals and realized that in Tommy I will need to use them more, and they were a bit stiff,so I moved my seat a bit forward for better leverage, Krusty pushed me back. hmmmmmmm.

Take off was interesting, instead of following the curved yellow line onto runway, he said just to go straight and make a quick 90 degree turn. "No use wastin' any runway, you paid fer it, may as well use it"

Upon take off, much right rudder was needed, and leg began to cramp a bit, not enough leverage. Also due to new experience in lighter plane, "death grip" came back, and Krusty gave me the business about that. I also leaned to the right on left turn, and to the left on right turn, Krusty gave me the business on that. Right leg was cramping bad.

I explained to him about the cramp in right leg, he said that he had a show girl, this is vegas, who had powerful legs but also had the cramp, but somehow he didn't get cramps in his right leg. Hmmmmmmm

I learned stuff from Krusty, not doubt, a book of knowledge, stuff The kid didnt' mention, he took me through the paces, up, down, around, pattern work, touch and goes, didn't do so good, but tried. He preferred to turn base before the 45 degree angle over left shoulder, this I didn't like since the 45 degrees gives me a better chance to get a grip on myself and into landing mode on final. But it's Krusty's show, not mine.

The straight flight back I was more at ease, and in more control of the craft.

After putting 1.7 on hobbs, I was exhausted as I sat in lounge with Krusty. I needed to decompress. He asked what I thought. I said that I was tight on the grip due to fear but that will pass with time. Krusty said he'd like to put a pencil between my fingers and yoke so that the death grip would become painful and I would not do it. hmmmmm

I told Krusty, the death grip in my opinion would gradually fade as I become more familiar and confident with the Tommy. He insisted on the pencil thing and told me that he can jump from plane to plane, different models and sizes without any of the problems I'm having. hmmmmm.

I guess it's all about Krusty. He then told me he is free this friday and next monday, I told him I need to sleep on it and decompress and I may go down to AZ next week for R and R.

He said I better book fast since he is filling up, being raised in NYC, I know a fast one when I see it, and just mellowly smiled.

Soooooooo, this morning I called the local sports flight school in Scottdale, told the girl on the other end about my experience, my death grip. She booked me some time this wednesday whereas she said we'll have a fun flight, not to worry, she vill take good care of me, she will be my CFI yeee hawww. I believe I'm flying the Remos GX.

Analysis. sh-t happens. Me and Krusty ain't as young as we used to be and Krusty ain't gonna be shown up by some youngin who don' t know jack bout stick und rudder.

Krusty did admit to me that his wife thinks he is anal, I stuck my tongue way back in cheek and said "now why would she say that"?

I think what put the icing on the cake was when we fueled up, Krusty was determined that every drop go into the tank and said it "make's me darn uspet if even I should drop one dab of this fuel at 4.50 a gallon" and he meant it as he shook the last droplet into the tank.
yozz
User avatar
scottj
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:08 pm
Location: Eagan (Twin Cities) MN, USA (KLVN)

I am with Krusty

Post by scottj »

I read your tongue in cheek post...then I read your other posts via your profile. Dude, you need to stick with Krusty and do what he tells you to do.

You show a lack of respect for "the kid" who tried to teach you to fly. I am inferring from your posts that you do not respect him or his certification.
This is interfering with your ability to accept instruction from him.

I mean no disrespect, but you sir, are the student. Just because you are twice (or triple) his age does not mean he cannot teach you something...if you let him.

Krusty is being hard on you, anal, because you need it.

Enjoy your flight training. It is a life time memory you are building.
Flight training begins on the ground, not in the air.℠
2011 FAASTeam Representative of the Year, Great Lakes Region
http://www.SticknRudder.com
User avatar
zaitcev
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:38 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by zaitcev »

What about the seat position though? Clearly Krusty was wrong at least on that.

BTW, I heard that the most essential stick and rudder skills that define the airwork for life of a pilot are laid down in the first 10 hours. It's probably too late by now, if so.
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

No mo' anal

Post by yozz25 »

Thanks for your reply Scotty.

I have a serious problem, anal don't work with me. The first 18 years of life were with military anal father, it don't work no mo'. It's just how I am wired, or rather how I rewired myself.

I prefer the give and take between teacher and student, teacher tells me to do something, I ask why, he explains and if it makes sense, I do it, if not, I ask again. The sit down and shut up don't work for me.

Krusty made his first error by not letting me adjust my seat. He was essentially subconsciously establishing who is boss. I know who is boss, he didn't have to pee on his territory to establish that fact. I also know the need for stick and rudder, something I did not get in Warrior with the kid.

Sometimes a teacher, especially one on one, has to be flexible and size up his student. A soft approach should first be tried. In flying, fear should be handled gently, assuring student that he will not fall from sky on bank.

To do this, you have to get into the students mind, observe him, detect fear, actually imagine yourself in his shoes, and stroke him with reassurance. Getting the person to relax is paramount.

As a newbie, my observations are those of a newbie, they will change as I develop an understanding of aviation and the business of teaching aviation. I've learned a lot just hanging out at the flight school, local airport watching the interaction between the players.

Each teacher and each student are unique. However, the teacher is the leader and must understand the unique needs of his charge. Being older, I know the importance of sizing people up, of sitting back and trying to get into their head in order to fulfill their needs better. This epiphany if you will occured over many years in my own professional life. I'm still honing my observation skills, there is so much to learn.

Krusty is getting old, it happens, but he is not going down gracefully, he has to prove he still got it, and no whippersnapper gonna show him who's boss.

The trick to teaching is to let the student think he is boss, if need be, while gently tricking him into fulfilling the essential exercises he must know to fly safely and proficiently. Teaching someone to do what you want him to do is in reality a seduction. You make that person feel good, and he will do cartwheels in the sky for you.

Krusty knows a lot, and perhaps he was a great CFI, but for some reason, he has something to prove. The teaching process is all about the student's needs. When it becomes the teacher's needs, then all must stop until the teacher can understand and re-align himself.

Being anal may actually be good for what I call the "good soldier" One willing to follow orders no matter what. Youngin's buy that stuff. I'm an old dog. I need to be patted on the head and fed my insure.

Like I said, it's all about Krusty.

yozz
User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2880
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA

Post by FastEddieB »

I have a serious problem, anal don't work with me.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but...

...if that's really true, you might consider another hobby.

That may seem harsh, but flying is so unforgiving by its very nature that being anal is a good thing.

By that I mean, doing a pre-flight before EVERY flight. ALWAYS checking the sumps. NEVER heading out without checking weather and TFR's. NEVER letting the airspeed get below X knots on final. That sort of thing.

A "lassaiz faire" attitude can be a good thing in many fields - but I'd suggest flying is not one of them.

That said, I'm not an "airspeed nazi" - airspeeds in the pattern can be approximate - as long as they meet PTS standards I'm OK with that.

But then again, maybe you mean something entirely different when you say "anal". In that case, I stand corrected and apologize ahead of time. :D
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
[email protected]
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

anal

Post by yozz25 »

Thanks for reply Eddie.

Yes I figured someone would say what you did.

Of course the precheck etc is essential. Being anal about essential machinery parts is needed. Yes I am well drilled on the walk around of a plane, checking all the parts, draining fuel, examining it, making sure things work as they should, checking oil, looking at condition of oil, looking at engine carefully for leaks, looking for loose wires, plugs, I'd even do a compression test there if I could.

Examining the integrity of the flight hinged parts, the bolts, the screws, the free and clear function of the moving yoke, the whole system to make sure nothing is gonna fall off in flight, nothing is stressed, nothing is compromised. lights work, systems work in run up, magnetos function well individually. Listening to engine carefully for misfire or roughness. Gyro vacuum in the green. Damn, how do I know there isn't a roach sitting on the gyro screwing up the settings.

Rivets are also important, so is integrity of propeller and fan belt on engine. I could go on, but I still feel it is not enough, still feel that more could be done to insure that engine will not crap out on takeoff. Ok, pitot tube gotta be clear, tires in good shape, no oil leaking from hydraulics, air intake clear. Both electric and engine driven fuel pumps need to work properly, so we test them accordingly. Still not enough, still gotta cross yer fingers. It still leaves a lot to be desired, but I guess this is the only system we have for existing aircraft.

In this day and age, perhaps another way can be developed to catch the things we cannot possibly see, such as a cracked cylinder head, a pump about to crap out, icing, something about to give, fan belt crack not detect by our feel. I even look at the fins, air cooling fins, with a little flash light, since they are relatively delicate being so thin.

I'm about as anal as it gets when doing this essential. I actually like looking over the craft, I was trained in high school in aero, but never got to fly.

It's a mechanical device, and the more moving parts, the more things are apt to crap out. Kinda scary when you think of it, but you do all you can, but still gotta cross them claws before you push the throttle up.

I think we can do better, perhaps newer engine enginnering is in order as far as aviation is concerned. With modern technology there should be no engine failure, or much more minimal. Of course turbines are the answer, but for us of the lower rungs, the good ole piston job has to do. Shame.

As for flying the bird, I need seduction.

yozz
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

forgot

Post by yozz25 »

Oh, as for flying.

Well of course air speed awareness is essential, in climb, in maneuvers,watching the indicator depending on what we are doing at the time, cruising, descending, landing approaching, steep turns. Need to read the specs to understand this, much training needed just to comprehend why one needs a certain speed. And make sure ya slow it down before dropping flaps, don't want to stress the suckers.

Many times on takeoff, kid told me after a few hundred feet to lower nose a bit, built up proper airspeed. Takes a good rewiring of the brain. Once up there throttle is altitude control, position of nose speed control. That onely comes with practice practice practice, the rewiring of mind, developing a new way of thinking, that you even do it when driving in car.

Perhaps the minimal hours for sports license isn't enough, 20 hours, hmmm.

I can understand air speed nazi, it doesn't let you fly the plane, gotta know when to loosen up, gotta enjoy the flying bit

Gee, I guess I'm throwing up on this page everything I learned in my 14.7 hours, well not everything, I can probably dig up more.

This is actually a good exercise for me to let it all out, training is grueling to say the least, got to purge my brain of all this stuff.

Learning to fly is anal, you are correct, but if I didn't have a casual sense of humor to counteract the seriousness, I'd lose what's left of my mind.
yozz :lol:
User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2880
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA

Post by FastEddieB »

yozz25,

That helps clarify things.

In flying, you must be "anal" where it counts and it looks like you have a handle on that.

If I have a student getting swamped with details and/or frustrated, sometimes its time to just go for a "fun" flight to bring some of the joy back. A flight where the student can do whatever he wants (within limits) without being harangued about every little thing. Maybe go somewhere interesting, maybe just fly around and sightsee. It may not seem productive (not a lot of real learning going on), but it can be important nonetheless.

Good luck - I wish I was closer. I'd love to spend a few hours in the air with you!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
[email protected]
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

got time

Post by yozz25 »

Hey Eddie, I got plenty of time, maybe I'll fly east to GA, get away from being yelled at by the wife, "take out da garbage schmuck"!

You can show this here NYC boy, residing in Vegas, some southern hospitality, such as where I can get a good pastrami on rye with deli mustard and a jewish pickle.

You can take da boy outta New York, but you can't take New York outta da boy.

As for being anal, fuhgettahboutit, we'll just eat and drink, then test out yer boid.

yozz :twisted:
Doss79
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:12 am
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post by Doss79 »

Haha I enjoyed your posts, Yozz.

I understand about "the kid". They are often too busy trying to build up time. I'm not much older than the kid, but even I had to dump mine. Cya.
User avatar
Daidalos
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: KHWV

Post by Daidalos »

I’ve been following this thread and trying to holding my tongue. I believe that your issues are more about expectations rather than the instructor. You can’t change the instructor but you can find another one.

In my early training days (1967) I went through what I would call a flight school mill. Almost each week there was a different instructor. They were all there building time. I left that school and found a plane and instructor to take me to my private.

Fast forward to 2008, I had not flown in 18 years due to a lapsed medical. When Sport Pilot came around I decide to get back into flying. My first stop was a school in NY (Mid Island) where the instructor was younger than my youngest child. This put me off until I remembered how I was perceived in my profession as a young broadcast engineer.

We talked about a check out and I felt uneasy with his assessment of how long it would take a 650+ hour pilot to transition. I reached out and drove down to Maryland (CSP) to find another Light Sport instructor. This was an older retired gentleman and I can’t say enough about his skills and amicable personally. Very “laided back” as my generation would say. I learned a lot from both. The first instructor was correct in his assessment. I’ve since been reading about the higher accident rate from the “experienced Private Pilots” transitioning to LSA’s

Today I still fly at both airports since I am about halfway between them. All I can say is you pay your money and make your choice. However give people a break; they all have different personalities and teaching styles. They may be reacting to your actions. Just imagine the conversations among CFI’s taking about their students, I’ve heard a few. What would he say about you?

In closing I am also a kid from NY (Bronx & Queens). We tend to be a tough bunch to please. Good luck with your training and “chill”.
Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL Instrument

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

hmm

Post by yozz25 »

I really don't have much of a problem with the instructors per se, except for Krusty.

The Kid did his thing for me, I have to transition to lighter planes, since I'm looking for a sports license, so I gave krusty a try, since he had a smaller plane and to be honest, I wasn't happy with my landings despite the Kid thinkiing I was doing ok.

Krusty is what through blew my mind. But in any case, had I been pursuing a PPL, I would simply stay with the local school, and use their people, including the kid.

I have no sports school here, I used the local one since I wanted to get a background in some flight.

Tomorrow I go to scottdale where they have the Remos gx, give it a whirl, if I like it, then I will continue with them.

yozz
yozz25
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: vegas

forgot again

Post by yozz25 »

Ok:

Let's start from the beginning.

I live in a graveyard, retirement community, on a foothill overlooking the local airport Khnd. Everyday since I moved here 4 years ago, I was looking at the private planes taking off and landing. I wasn't well enough in the beginning to do anything.

Now that I am better, I decided to take a discovery flight. Bad timing, went up in a DA-20 midsummer when it was about 110 degrees out, almost dropped dead in plane as we bounced all over the place due to thermals coming up from hot as hell desert. I couldn't even answer the CFI after the flight when he asked about what I wanted to do, which was have about 12 beers to draw myself out of heat exhaustion and shock.

Came home and hid under bed.

Went to neighboring flight school when weather cooled off and told them I need a heavier plane and want to eventually do sports license since I take meds that would give me trouble on medical. The school said they are planning on getting a sports job.

Ok, the lure of the sky called and had the Kid for 13 hours, but knew I had to eventually transfer to sports job as I found out that they weren't getting sports plane after all. But I figured the hours I put in would count towards my sport license minimal hours. I took Krusty the last time since I wanted another perspective, on my landings, that was all and the kid was booking up like crazy.

My problem or rather not a problem is that I live right near the airport, can't get any better than that. I can fly when I want to, my money is green and the sky calls, but I have to know when to fold the cards here and transition over to sports where the nearest school that beacons me is about 4 hours south in AZ.

I may not like the sports thing, which leaves me with coming back home, and simply continuing to train locally just for the heck of it. The worst possible thing that could happen is that I end up paying for 2 hours of hobbs time for a cross country to havasu or whatever and another 100 bucks to have a CFI sit with me.

It's something I always wanted to do, I'm glad I did my almost 15 hours, learned lots, learning lots from this board alone and having some fun, better to do this then to wait for a hip transplant which is the current rave in my graveyard community. Next month I heard hernia surgery wil be in vogue.

yozz
local viagra salesperson, "The dead will rise again in Foothill cemetary, I guarantee"
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Post by drseti »

Daidalos wrote:My first stop was a school in NY (Mid Island) where the instructor was younger than my youngest child.
Marcus, if that's Mike you're talking about, I am pleased to tell you that (young as he is), he's matured into a first-rate instructor. I too was deterred at first. He quickly convinced me that my thousands of hours in heavy iron were a detriment, not an advantage -- and helped me to make a (so far) smooth transition to LSA. And, yes, I needed far more transition time than I would at first have guessed. Mike was patient with me as I re-learned how to fly.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
ka7eej
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:54 pm
Location: Taylor, Az
Contact:

Post by ka7eej »

Yozz
I like your style! Had some of the same thoughts and feelings as you.. After 5 hours in a Allegro 2000 in Mesa, AZ I liked it well enough to purchase the same type of plane in North Carolina. I paid my young CFI to fly the plane back to AZ with me... It was a grreat trip...Two days of low and slow over a bunch of the USA.. I spent 45 hours dual with him and was never comfortable landing the way he was teaching... Full flap stall her in ...After much reading here and on CTFLYER.Com I hearned to land with min flaps and some power... The world changed for me and I changed instructors as well Enter a Krusty with feelings..... nothing to prove, justs wants you to be a good safe pilot... Go at your own speed with just a little gentle proding...My plane is in a hanger in Taylor Az not all far from you and if I can ever get some days off I'll fly up to Vegas and take you for a ride...in a Allegro 2000...
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!
Post Reply