Students perspective

[3Dreaming]

The FAA requires an instructor provide SP training in an LSA to have 5 hours in make and model before instructing. AFS-610 has even gone so far as to require that to be solo time. You instructor should have taken that plane up for at least 5 hours and done all the maneuvers several times each. If the instructor does have the 5 hours solo time but just used that time to fly around sightseeing, then your instructor shouldn't be instructing.

Good luck.

Like everyone says that changes next friday, But it was only for subpart "K" instructors. However I think someone coming from GA aircraft should get more time than 5 hours before trying to train someone in the airplane.

[roger lee]

I fully agree. GA CFI's need LSA time and an attitude adjustment at times. Many crashes in the LSA industry are from high time pilots and CFI's that don't have enough transition time to an LSA which has its own characteristics. Just like a Rotax engine is not a Continental or Lycoming for A&P's an LSA is not a Cessna or Piper (heavy aircraft) for CFI's coming out of that training and right into LSA training.

[rsteele]

I trained at and still rent form tadel001's flight school. I've flown with four of his instructors, for instruction and stage checks. I've never experienced any of the problems Yozz25 has encountered. I'd be glad to take anyone of them along any day just to go flying for fun. I've been lucky, but I expect that luck has more to do with being within driving distance of a good school, than in getting a particular instructor. This may have a lot to do with success of his school!

Yozz25, I hope your diligence makes a difference for those that come after you. And for you too, of course

Ron

[drseti]

The FAA requires an instructor provide SP training in an LSA to have 5 hours in make and model before instructing.

If I'm reading the FARs correctly, what it says is five hours in a make and model within the same set as the aircraft you're instructing in. As I interpret it, I would be legal, after five hours in my SportStar, to instruct you in a Sport Cruiser or Gobosh. (That would be dumb, but legal.) Since the sets are going away April 2nd, to be replaced by category and class, the five hour requirement gets even more diluted. I think NAFI needs to step in here and make a firm recommendation that all instructors have at least five hours in exact make and model before instructing in it.

[drseti]

It's a nickname my ex-wife gave me on our honeymoon!

Awwww... I was figuring you were the pianist at Callihan's Crosstime Saloon. (If you don't read Spider Robinson, you should.)

[drseti]

GA CFI's need LSA time and an attitude adjustment at times.

Couldn't agree more. When I bought my SportStar a couple of months ago, the dealer threw in 5 hours of dual as part of the deal. I had about 1.5 hours in make and model before that (two demo flights), so I certainly needed (and appreciated) the extra instruction. After that, I flew another ten hours or so before beginning to give dual in it. Now, with 20 hours in type, I'm just beginning to feel competent. Fact is, no matter how many thousands of hours you have, any time you get a new plane (any plane, but especially an LSA), you become a student pilot all over again.

[yozz25]

Well, I guess you guys are the experts, I'm the student, the puzzled look on my CFIs face told it all. It's not his fault, he works at the mercy of the FBO, he has to march in lock step for FBO and figure out the plane himself, this he admitted.

On the other hand, I have to bone up on all there is to bone up on with this craft, for my own good, to make up where he may be missing.

I looked up the ownership of this Remos, still registered to what appears to be a distributor. Pehaps they are making this FBO and dealer and sent them a plane to see how it works out, or perhaps someone did buy it on lease back and there is a lag in FAA records.

yozz

[Doss79]

yozz, this is the best way to learn..although it may be a little more expensive this way. That's how I learned to fly...by others making mistakes with me...and it sucked, but I came out a better pilot in the end, I think.

Good luck.

[yozz25]

Hey, I just take it in stride, no use getting anymore migraines over this stuff. I was getting headaches over all of this but realized it's not worth it, and just to go at my own pace, not what is dictated by others.

And if I feel an instructor sucks, so be it, it's market economics. So far this young fellow seems promising.

But I will tell it as I see it and experience it. I'm not politically correct, even on a sport pilot forum, lol.

My immediate goal right now is to be more proficient in my landings, and that is what I aim to do. My dime.

What I do notice is that the basic training is the same as far as basic maneuvers goes, but then it sort of branches off when it comes to landing, trimming, stick rudder use, etc. Each CFI has his own method.

I'm happy that I can do what is needed to fly, check it out craft well, taxi, speak to tower, take it up, buzz around and land without killing myself or wrecking plane. I'm very happy about that, and the money I spent so far is worth every dime to satisfy my curiosity about flying.

Would have done it out of high school, but life gets in the way I guess.

It has also "re-started" my interest in the physics of flying, something I learned in high school, Bernoulis law, etc. I'm learning about weather, air pressure, and all the variables that effect flying. I hate learning about the rules, boring, but gotta do it. FAA manual has great illustrations, very interesting science book.

If I do manage to get the sports ticket, it's a bonus to me. Right now the goal is to tighten up landings, get my own method down tight.

Each day I have to fight a system, to make sure the FBO is on the right track with me, not just taking me for a spin. I guess that is what is giving me headaches.

yozz

[frfly172]

In defence of the instructors I dont think they can all be bad. You might read a few pages out of the fundamentals of instruction so you might get a feel of where they are coming from.Just my thoughts

[bryancobb]

Yozz,

frfly is speaking about an FAA Textbook called FUNDAMENTALS OF INSTRUCTING, OR F.O.I..
All CFI's had to pass this Psychology test on how to teach and motivate students.
Take a look at it and as he says, you may understand a lot better why a CFI is behaving like he or she is.

[yozz25]

Sounds good about the instructors manual.

I'll take a look of course, I'm sure they have to be briefed on psyche of teaching.

But nevertheless, just like in regular ground teaching, schools, etc, one has to be aware of a personal agenda, or rather a teacher who takes an approach more for himself, than for the student.

Hand handling and threatening to stick a pencil under ones fingers in my book is a no no. These were the old ones, there agenda was "my way or the highway". Guess they took the highway.

Both guys said the same thing. "I have many more hours than the young"
I never asked them how many hours they have, I know already they have many.

That in itself is a signal to me that both has something to prove. I'm not interested in what hey have to prove. The ensuing actions of hand handling and threats only strengthened my take on these fellow. They both got the highway, they don't "get it"

The agenda is to teach, not prove a point, and teaching in my book is a gentle art. You have to make your student comfy, and gently coax them to do what is necessary to fly the plane safely. Part of teaching is give and take between the student, this is where a flexible mindset comes in and will actually create a bond between student and teacher.

Of course there are those who do appeciate the drill meister method, but that can be applied also once you size up your student.

Some out there in the teaching professions do not understand the sublime way the mind works, thus they are mechanical. They add no dimension to their lesson, and they struggle and become frustrated in getting their point across, this is reflected in their voice tone, actions that are not smooth, and abruptness and inflexible attitudes.

No give and take. Just give and take it. They have their place, but at my stage in life, it's not with me. The relaxed teacher who has nothing to prove, but is dedicated not just to his field but his love of teaching with a gentle passion, will rarely become frustrated. No need to show who is boss, both partners know.

Teaching is hard, it takes much insight, it's a work that is never perfected, but once the mind opens up to that "a ha" moment, and the teacher becomes one with the student, then a barrier is crossed.


now back to my zen cave
yozz

[yozz25]

Looked at the sysnopsis of the FOI.

Wow, so many acronyms. Many concepts.

I can sort of see where it's coming from, trying to teach flyers who have great technical knowledge what I consider an art.

Now I understand these guys a bit better.

Sitting with a person one on one in cockpit is more difficult in some ways in that you have to deal with a certain personality at first, size up the student.

Each person learns differently, and this is what you have to establish by trial and error.

The only way an instructor knows if he is effective, and this is a 2 way thing, is to watch the progress. Most people do progress, and are average, with some above, and some hopeless. That is the nature of the world.

In the beginning of flying, much information was thrown at me in doing many exercises over and over. Made no sense to me. Came home exhausted.

As time goes on, and I do my own boning up, things gel. I realize now I can taxi much straighter, especially when CFI is quiet. All of the stuff thrown at me is sticking, takes offs are straighter, nose is getting lowered to right attitude, speaking to tower is getting smoother.

I guess I learn by sleeping on it for a while, then being let loose to do my own thing without interuption.

For myself, I believe I may be making more out of landing than need be, need to lighten up, relax, and not concentrate as hard and let it flow down.

Just my thoughts.

Looking at the FOI reminds me of the frustration educators have had for years in figuring out what works, what doesn't in education.

Here you are taking non teachers for the most part, and giving them some sort of guidelines to get out there and walk the student through the drill need to meet fAA requirements. No easy task, very frustrating.

I can only say that out of the 6 I've had, the best were the calmest, spoke smoothly, reacted gently, didn't hint any frustration, made me feel comfy. For basic maneuvers, they all knew their stuff.

My son is a teacher in NYC, he is a natural. He does his own thing in the classroom, but still has to take education courses to meet state regs. The extra classes do not make him a better teacher, it's just in him. His job is rough, special ed kids in deprived areas who put up all obstacles. And he had better be politically correct. It takes it's toll on him though. He does better tutoring one on one.

All I can say, is if you can get the guy up in the air, make him proficient,and keep him happy, and he passes his exams, you've both done your job.

Both CFI and student have to know when they've reached their limits, and say so, so a time out, or perhaps an easy fun flight can be arranged. The student can simply cancel, the CFI has to suggest some fun.

Rough job for both, but gotta know when to hold em, when to fold em.
yozz

[drseti]

gotta know when to hold em, when to fold em

As I continued in one of my short stories: "know when to walk away, know when to fly."

[yozz25]

It's very windy here, this is the 3rd time we had to cancel, while the other larger craft went up. But even they bounced around like hell.

Not much action in and out of KHND lately.

What is the wind limitation on these lsa's in general?

yozz