Sport Pilot Talk

drseti wrote:

TimTaylor wrote:I was asking if a pre-purchase inspection would be able to tell if an owner who did his own maintenance knew what he was doing while maintaining his own aircraft.

Heck, a prebuy examination can't even tell if an LSRM, A&P, or AI knew what he or she was doing! The prebuy can only determine if the aircraft as viewed is indeed as advertised.

So, if he advertised the aircraft is 'in great shape" and the pre-buy confirms the aircraft is "in great shape," then the owner who did his own maintenance probably knew what he was doing or just got lucky.

TimTaylor wrote: the owner who did his own maintenance probably knew what he was doing or just got lucky.

Yes, one or the other. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which.

drseti wrote:

TimTaylor wrote: the owner who did his own maintenance probably knew what he was doing or just got lucky.

Yes, one or the other. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which.

Bingo!

The same, however, is true of an LSRM, A&P, or IA who worked on a plane that was found satisfactory in a prebuy. That person either knew what he or she was doing, or got lucky. So owner maintenance is not necessarily any better or worse than professional maintenance!

drseti wrote:The same, however, is true of an LSRM, A&P, or IA who worked on a plane that was found satisfactory in a prebuy. That person either knew what he or she was doing, or got lucky. So owner maintenance is not necessarily any better or worse than professional maintenance!

But, as I said before, I would rather take my chances with a professionally trained and experienced mechanic vs a new owner with no training or experience who I don't know. I think there is value in training and experience. Others will have their own opinions. I'm not saying I would never purchase an E-LSA. I'm just saying I would be a little more uneasy about it, unless I knew the seller.

TimTaylor wrote:

drseti wrote:

TimTaylor wrote: the owner who did his own maintenance probably knew what he was doing or just got lucky.

Yes, one or the other. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which.

Bingo!

Why would it matter which it was? You're the buyer and if you feel the aircraft is "in great shape" then it's on you to either buy it or not. If the aircraft is "in great shape" and the logs are in order that would tell me the service and maintenance was done properly, hence the "in great shape" comment. Why would it matter if it was done by a certified mechanic or a monkey? Jeez

Here's my mechanic performing a carb sync at my last annual and he signed all my log entries, my plane is "in great shape".

Obviously, it wouldn't matter if the aircraft was actually "in great shape." That begs the question I asked earlier, is it possible to ascertain that with a pre-buy inspection?

I think the correct answer is you just do the best you can with a pre-buy and take your chances. I would consider who did the maintenance, some others would not.

Could a human with a monkey wrench be the same as a monkey with a human wrench?

drseti wrote:

TimTaylor wrote:I was asking if a pre-purchase inspection would be able to tell if an owner who did his own maintenance knew what he was doing while maintaining his own aircraft.

Heck, a prebuy examination can't even tell if an LSRM, A&P, or AI knew what he or she was doing! The prebuy can only determine if the aircraft as viewed is indeed as advertised.

IA's don't perform maintenance.

TimTaylor wrote:Obviously, it wouldn't matter if the aircraft was actually "in great shape." That begs the question I asked earlier, is it possible to ascertain that with a pre-buy inspection?

I think the correct answer is you just do the best you can with a pre-buy and take your chances. I would consider who did the maintenance, some others would not.

It doesn't take long for a mechanic who knows what they are doing to look at an aircraft and determine the level of maintenance it has had.
Paul can chime in here, but I think most of the training to be a LSRM is not on how to perform the work but rather how to document the work and comply with the regulations.

3Dreaming wrote: Paul can chime in here, but I think most of the training to be a LSRM is not on how to perform the work but rather how to document the work and comply with the regulations.

That was certainly true for the three-week LSRM course I took. However, I must point out that most of us in the class had decades of wrench-turning experience. So, we were there not necessarily to learn how to be hands-on mechanics, but rather to learn the FARs and documentation standards.

drseti wrote:

TimTaylor wrote:I was asking if a pre-purchase inspection would be able to tell if an owner who did his own maintenance knew what he was doing while maintaining his own aircraft.

Heck, a prebuy examination can't even tell if an LSRM, A&P, or AI knew what he or she was doing! The prebuy can only determine if the aircraft as viewed is indeed as advertised.

Paul has it right. Whether the airplane was maintained and inspected by an A&P/IA or an owner with a light sport repairman-inspection certificate, a pre-purchase inspection is the only way to tell if it's safe to fly.

The previous owner of my Zodiac was an 85 year old retired ATP who hadn't flown it for five years, but dutifully had a certified repair station perform an annual on it every year. The last annual before I bought it in May, 2016 had been signed off five months before in January. The pre-purchase inspection revealed two pages of squawks with several items rendering it unairworthy. Apparently, the shop had pencil-whipped the annuals knowing the owner would likely never fly it again. The engine and airframe had less than 100 hours since new, so I bought it and fixed the squawks.

For fifteen years, I did owner assisted annuals on my 172 under the direction of my IA, including checking engine compression, cleaning and gapping the plugs, changing the oil & oil filter and inspecting the filter for metal, checking control cables for condition and tension, lubricating pulleys, removing wheels and cleaning/regreasing bearings, servicing the nose gear oleo strut, verifying proper operation of all instruments, avionics, and lights, and ensuring pitot/static and transponders tests currency. Finally, I closely inspected the airframe for smoking or popped rivets, corrosion, and any signs of stress or cracks.

I know how to do my own maintenance iaw the manufacturer's recommendations and AC 43.13-1B, and as a USAF avionics tech I know how to install and check my own avionics.

I also know when to ask for help if there's something I don't feel competent to do; it's my butt - not some mechanic's - that's at risk if my airplane isn't safe.

<rant off>

drseti wrote:

3Dreaming wrote: Paul can chime in here, but I think most of the training to be a LSRM is not on how to perform the work but rather how to document the work and comply with the regulations.

That was certainly true for the three-week LSRM course I took. However, I must point out that most of us in the class had decades of wrench-turning experience. So, we were there not necessarily to learn how to be hands-on mechanics, but rather to learn the FARs and documentation standards.

My point was that having the creds doesn't make you a better mechanic, it just teaches you how to document what you have done.

Stan, I would purchase an aircraft from you in a heart beat. You obviously know what you are doing and are diligent in doing it correctly and thoroughly. You have years of valuable experience and didn't just decide to maintain an aircraft with no training or experience, same reason I would purchase an aircraft from FastEddie with no concerns.

Diligent?