Sport Pilot Talk

But it explains what is required as part of aircraft certification and what is required to maintain the aircraft airworthiness. If you modify your standard certificated aircraft and do not update the weight and balance documentation, your aircraft is no longer airworthy. Evidently, SLSA is a little different. The C162 aircraft manual has this documented weight and balance information contained in an envelope attached to the back of the aircraft manual for the specific N numbered aircraft. It must be in the airplane and updated if any changes are made to the aircraft.

I can’t believe this thread has progressed this far. There are far more important weight and balance issues, among others to dwell on wheel pants, Really! Who cares? I’d be more concerned with an overweight baggage compartment, passenger or fuel on board with the additional weight. Thats what’s going to kill you, not the difference of wheel pants on or off or if you’ll be ramped checked.

dstclair wrote:Interesting topic came up in another forum concerning the need to update the W&B of an airplane if the wheel pants are removed. Unanimous opinion of the A&Ps/IAs was that the plane was technically not airworthy if the W&B is not updated. This came up as a few folks were contemplating removing their wheel pants when going to AirVenture out of concern of damaging them when off the hard surface, especially if it's rained recently. Thoughts?

This was the question. Not every debate has to be about safety.

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:I can’t believe this thread has progressed this far. There are far more important weight and balance issues, among others to dwell on wheel pants, Really! Who cares? I’d be more concerned with an overweight baggage compartment, passenger or fuel on board with the additional weight. Thats what’s going to kill you, not the difference of wheel pants on or off or if you’ll be ramped checked.

Concur.
Don’t sweat getting run over by ants . . . it’s those damn elephants you gotta’ watch out for! . .

Wm.Ince wrote: Don’t sweat getting run over by ants . . .

It’s hard to conclude that without actually knowing the arm of the ants.

FastEddieB wrote:

Wm.Ince wrote:Don’t sweat getting run over by ants . . .

It’s hard to conclude that without actually knowing the arm of the ants.

I didn't start this thread to go down the safety path for removing wheel pants. I thought my Q was focused on what is required if the wheel pants are removed and Tom has provided great clarity on the regs.

On a more serious note, the Law of Primacy is strong.

One of the very first things I learned about flying was the acronym ARROW. And I’ve taught it forever, albeit with the second “R” no longer relevant. So, if you had asked me, the “W” is one of the things that must be in the plane.

And yet, I’ve been unable to find a regulation that specifically states that. I even glanced at the FAA publication on weight and balance*, and find no reference to anything regulatory along those lines.

So there’s that.


*An excellent resource, and available online as a pdf.

FastEddieB wrote:On a more serious note, the Law of Primacy is strong.

One of the very first things I learned about flying was the acronym ARROW. And I’ve taught it forever, albeit with the second “R” no longer relevant. So, if you had asked me, the “W” is one of the things that must be in the plane.

And yet, I’ve been unable to find a regulation that specifically states that. I even glanced at the FAA publication on weight and balance*, and find no reference to anything regulatory along those lines.

So there’s that.


*An excellent resource, and available online as a pdf.

That's where I am. It's a great idea to have food W&B info, and it's hard to argue that you can have a safe flight without a good idea whether you are within limits. But the thread began as a "is this required" question, and I have responded to that.

Eddie, I know you have a a great understanding of the FARs, so it heartens me a bit about my stance that you can't find it either.

It is contained in the aircraft certification requirements and requirements for maintaining aircraft airworthiness. I'm not sure there is a requirement for it to be in the airplane unless aircraft specific, but as Eddie stated, we were all taught "ARROW" but I don't know where that came from. I believe part of a pre-purchase inspection usually includes a review of the aircraft weight and balance documentation and verification it is current.

Anecdote:

I only had 2 students fail checkrides, both during the oral portion.

One was clearly my fault. It was a fellow with his own Mooney going for commercial. A few days before the checkride, I asked him to do a weight and balance. He whipped out his owner’s handbook and started to do one using the “Sample Airplane” contained therein. I said no, we need to use the actual weight and balance for his plane. Which it turned out he didn’t have.

I said to go ahead with the checkride and to explain the situation to the examiner. Which resulted in a pink slip as soon as the lack of weight and balance paperwork was discovered.

Lesson learned.

Andy, a question for you. I know that under preventive maintenance a pilot can remove and install tray mounted radio equipment that is designed to be easily and repeatedly removed, but are you sure you can legally fly the airplane with the radio removed?

For what is worth - when a mechanic replaced my ELT with a new model , despite the fact that the change was negligible he would not release the plane unless I gave him a smart W&B balance excel spreadsheet which he saw in the Sting documentation.
I had to create one from scratch , replicate formulas used in the manual and then he recalculated the balance with it and with the new ELT and then signed the book.
Lot of work on my part for such small change ...

But then again , this is the same mechanic who installed a quick release oil valve without any authorization which I had to subsequently remove ... so go figure - it is pretty much Wild West out there

I don't think a reputable A&P will release your aircraft, nor should he, until he has updated the aircraft weight and balance. Otherwise, the aircraft is not airworthy.

A mechanic cannot hold your airplane. All he can do is refuse to sign it off. If a mechanic “refused to release” my airplane, I’d call the cops and tell them the mechanic had stolen the airplane.