I would not be concerned with parts or availability of help with the rotax. There are lots of them around now. It has been in production long enough to find the bugs. They are fine.
Main thing I learned about Rotax is follow the instructions exactly and you will have no problems.
The 912 S power to weight does for LSA what a turbine conversion does for larger airplanes. It will take a clean sheet design to compete.
I really hate that there is a weight limit on LSA and not simply performance specifications. It puts most owners in a real situation for who they can fly and how much fuel can be carried.
The airframes easily have the performance to carry more weight.
What hurts me is to see the little A-65 continental in the cub turning a heavy aluminum 74" X 44" prop at 2050-2100 static rpm. This is larger diameter and less pitch than most 912 installations. Same prop RPM. Same TBO, 4-4.5 GPH from the A-65. The little A-65 can run on most any octane and starts in almost any temperature, has a crude automatic mixture. I just wonder about the total thrust from each engine.
If both had the same props what would be the comparison.
The A-65 is a very very simple engine
It's also very hard to get accurate total firewall forward weight estimates for any engine.
Any LSA Builders Using Lycomings New IO-233 LSA Engine ?
Moderator: drseti
Can you change your own oil?
By strict reading of the Rotax Line Maintenance Manual for the 912, I question whether anyone can legally change the oil in a Rotax without some form of Rotax-approved training. Check out the "Authorized personnel" section of that manual.Cub flyer wrote: Can you legally change your own oil as a Sport pilot?
A quick note about the Jabiru.
The earlier 80hp Jabiru 2200s were suspected of not putting out their rated hp. Appearantly this has been corrected in more recent additions.
It appears that zenith is starting to lean more toward Jabiru engines for their 601XL and STOL 750. The dirty little secret on the zenith lists seems to be that the zenith performance numbers are "optimistic" to say the least. The demo 601XL is fitted with a Jab 3300, not a rotax or contenintal. The 750 is fitted with a contenintal but is being reported as being a bit nose heavy.
The overhaul numbers I have been hearing for the Jabiru is $5,500 to $6,000 at the factory. However, you can overhaul it yourself for less than half of that cost. They even teach how to rebuild the engine in a workshop at the U.S. jabiru headquarters. Many of the parts (like spark plugs, etc) are auto parts and can be purchased at the local auto zone.
The cooling problem seems to be the biggest reported issue. For the most part Jabiru sells custom FWF packages for their engines on several kits. IIRC, the guys at Just Aircraft (makers of the highlander and escapade) had a heck of a time building a baffling system on their own to keep it cool.
The earlier 80hp Jabiru 2200s were suspected of not putting out their rated hp. Appearantly this has been corrected in more recent additions.
It appears that zenith is starting to lean more toward Jabiru engines for their 601XL and STOL 750. The dirty little secret on the zenith lists seems to be that the zenith performance numbers are "optimistic" to say the least. The demo 601XL is fitted with a Jab 3300, not a rotax or contenintal. The 750 is fitted with a contenintal but is being reported as being a bit nose heavy.
The overhaul numbers I have been hearing for the Jabiru is $5,500 to $6,000 at the factory. However, you can overhaul it yourself for less than half of that cost. They even teach how to rebuild the engine in a workshop at the U.S. jabiru headquarters. Many of the parts (like spark plugs, etc) are auto parts and can be purchased at the local auto zone.
The cooling problem seems to be the biggest reported issue. For the most part Jabiru sells custom FWF packages for their engines on several kits. IIRC, the guys at Just Aircraft (makers of the highlander and escapade) had a heck of a time building a baffling system on their own to keep it cool.
Re: Can you change your own oil?
I have attended the Rotax Line Maintenance course for the 912 and 914 engines, and have the certificate to prove it. It was money and time well spent.KellyZ wrote:By strict reading of the Rotax Line Maintenance Manual for the 912, I question whether anyone can legally change the oil in a Rotax without some form of Rotax-approved training. Check out the "Authorized personnel" section of that manual.Cub flyer wrote: Can you legally change your own oil as a Sport pilot?
Roger Fane
Former owner of a 2006 Flight Design CTsw
Former owner of a 2006 Flight Design CTsw
I started out with a 80 hp aluminum rod small cylinder head jabiru in the kitfox. Temps were a problem. When we gave up on their supplied baffles and made a pressure cowl and baffle setup like a normal installation it almost ran too cold. With no oil cooler installed.
Later on the X air I had the 85 hp version with large heads. I left the cooling system stock and it worked ok except when I installed the Warp Drive prop on floats.
The warp drive had too much pitch change over the diameter of the propeller. Either the root had pitch to cool and tips were too coarse or the tips were flat enough to get rpm and the engine ran hot. Just did not work well.
The Italian GT wood prop was quieter, lower rpm and smoother. very nice prop.
I ended up cutting down the diameter of the Warp Drive in stages and then grinding the blade tips to a horner wingtip shape like AMR&D does for the cherokee props. That helped some.
There needs to be some kind of oversight or independent testing of props/ engines etc. It's really hard to compare. The prop manufacturers pitch settings are not even taken from the same percent of diameter so you can't compare props.
It will take some sort of dyno run or running similar engines with the same prop and measuring power . Or performance on the same airframe.
With Jabiru we kept having to buy propellers in search of something which would work. There are not too many ground adjust props for the direct drive engines.
gets expensive fast.
Later on the X air I had the 85 hp version with large heads. I left the cooling system stock and it worked ok except when I installed the Warp Drive prop on floats.
The warp drive had too much pitch change over the diameter of the propeller. Either the root had pitch to cool and tips were too coarse or the tips were flat enough to get rpm and the engine ran hot. Just did not work well.
The Italian GT wood prop was quieter, lower rpm and smoother. very nice prop.
I ended up cutting down the diameter of the Warp Drive in stages and then grinding the blade tips to a horner wingtip shape like AMR&D does for the cherokee props. That helped some.
There needs to be some kind of oversight or independent testing of props/ engines etc. It's really hard to compare. The prop manufacturers pitch settings are not even taken from the same percent of diameter so you can't compare props.
It will take some sort of dyno run or running similar engines with the same prop and measuring power . Or performance on the same airframe.
With Jabiru we kept having to buy propellers in search of something which would work. There are not too many ground adjust props for the direct drive engines.
gets expensive fast.
sport pilot can change his own oil on an S-LSA
According to FAR 43.3 (g):
"The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category."
And, according to FAR 43.7 (h):
"The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category."
The reference to standard catagory aircraft and private pilot in the Appendix A to FAR 43 in (30) says:
"The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate ..."
which means that it is SPECIFIC to that aircraft type certificate, and not only that, but you must ALSO have a maintenance certificate SPECIFIC to that aircraft, as stated in (30)(i):
"...at least a private pilot...and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft ..."
Just having a private is not enough for the items referred to in Appendix A (30).
Taken altogether, a Sport pilot can change the oil in his S-LSA, and a private pilot can change the oil in his Certificated aircraft; but, if the certificated aircraft has specific maintenance spelled out on the type certificate, then you cant do it even if you are a private pilot, unless you have an approved maintenance certificate.
That leaves the question of whether or not a Sport pilot can change the oil on a Certficated aircraft that does not have any special rules in the type certificate on the oil change, but was issued a standard certificate while maintaining at all times compliance with the definition of LSA.
That looks like a hole in the FARs because it doesnt explicitly prohibit a sport pilot from preventative maintenance on a certificated aircraft that qualifies as an LSA, and yet doesnt have an S-LSA certificate.
On the issue of an oil change for the ROTAX, the Line Maintenance manual states in Section 2.2, that "on-the-job instruction" from an authoriized Rotax distributor representaive is the minimum requirement. Since that requirement can be easily met by training videos supplied by Rotax authorized service centers, that would seem to allow any Sport pilot to change the oil, provided he received proper authorized instruction.
"The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category."
And, according to FAR 43.7 (h):
"The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category."
The reference to standard catagory aircraft and private pilot in the Appendix A to FAR 43 in (30) says:
"The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate ..."
which means that it is SPECIFIC to that aircraft type certificate, and not only that, but you must ALSO have a maintenance certificate SPECIFIC to that aircraft, as stated in (30)(i):
"...at least a private pilot...and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft ..."
Just having a private is not enough for the items referred to in Appendix A (30).
Taken altogether, a Sport pilot can change the oil in his S-LSA, and a private pilot can change the oil in his Certificated aircraft; but, if the certificated aircraft has specific maintenance spelled out on the type certificate, then you cant do it even if you are a private pilot, unless you have an approved maintenance certificate.
That leaves the question of whether or not a Sport pilot can change the oil on a Certficated aircraft that does not have any special rules in the type certificate on the oil change, but was issued a standard certificate while maintaining at all times compliance with the definition of LSA.
That looks like a hole in the FARs because it doesnt explicitly prohibit a sport pilot from preventative maintenance on a certificated aircraft that qualifies as an LSA, and yet doesnt have an S-LSA certificate.
On the issue of an oil change for the ROTAX, the Line Maintenance manual states in Section 2.2, that "on-the-job instruction" from an authoriized Rotax distributor representaive is the minimum requirement. Since that requirement can be easily met by training videos supplied by Rotax authorized service centers, that would seem to allow any Sport pilot to change the oil, provided he received proper authorized instruction.
Here's the type certificate data sheet for the Piper Vagabond . This is one of the few SP standard category airplanes certified entirely after World War II.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... /A-805.pdf
All of the Standard Category airplanes which meet SP rules were certificated many years ago. Their type certificates were usually under CAR rules or similar and have no special instructions for maintenance included. Below is an easier to understand list of owner maintenance items allowed to a Private or higher pilot.
http://www.watsonvillepilots.org/articles/DIYmaint.htm
As you can see the list is quite extensive. Much more than just oil changes. Also the private pilot can make log entries for what maintenance they do.
With the proper drawings and materials a private pilot and higher can even make their own airframe parts for their airplane. Called an "Owner produced part" You could build an entire wing or fuselage if you had the drawings, materials and used the same processes. We have done this several times. The Smithsonian has the drawings for many old airplanes on microfiche.
This is something a certificated AP or IA mechanic cannot do. Only the owner. The owner can supply parts to the mechanic as raw materials and they can fabricate them from there. It all depends on having the correct drawings, materials, and processes.
http://www.iflyamerica.org/ownerproducedparts.asp
Why were sport pilots NOT included in this considering that no flight rating has any instruction on aircraft maintenance other than knowing the required inspection intervals and systems operation for safe flight.
An ATP owner is no more qualified to change oil on a Taylorcraft than a Sport Pilot owner.
Just another way SP is much more complicated and limited than it needs to be.
Who wrote these rules anyway. People selling new airplanes. selling parts, planning service centers. Talking the FAA into what they perceived as safe and ignoring what has been proven to be safe over many years.
We've had limits installed to protect us from ourselves. Even though we were not doing anything wrong. This is to allow a few to make more money.
sorry for the tirade but I get madder every time I try to figure out this muddled mess. Some loophole here, vague explanation there.
My instructor said "you need to be a Lawyer to figure it all out" to a student. Student replies "I must be a bad one because I've been a lawyer for years."
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... /A-805.pdf
All of the Standard Category airplanes which meet SP rules were certificated many years ago. Their type certificates were usually under CAR rules or similar and have no special instructions for maintenance included. Below is an easier to understand list of owner maintenance items allowed to a Private or higher pilot.
http://www.watsonvillepilots.org/articles/DIYmaint.htm
As you can see the list is quite extensive. Much more than just oil changes. Also the private pilot can make log entries for what maintenance they do.
With the proper drawings and materials a private pilot and higher can even make their own airframe parts for their airplane. Called an "Owner produced part" You could build an entire wing or fuselage if you had the drawings, materials and used the same processes. We have done this several times. The Smithsonian has the drawings for many old airplanes on microfiche.
This is something a certificated AP or IA mechanic cannot do. Only the owner. The owner can supply parts to the mechanic as raw materials and they can fabricate them from there. It all depends on having the correct drawings, materials, and processes.
http://www.iflyamerica.org/ownerproducedparts.asp
Why were sport pilots NOT included in this considering that no flight rating has any instruction on aircraft maintenance other than knowing the required inspection intervals and systems operation for safe flight.
An ATP owner is no more qualified to change oil on a Taylorcraft than a Sport Pilot owner.
Just another way SP is much more complicated and limited than it needs to be.
Who wrote these rules anyway. People selling new airplanes. selling parts, planning service centers. Talking the FAA into what they perceived as safe and ignoring what has been proven to be safe over many years.
We've had limits installed to protect us from ourselves. Even though we were not doing anything wrong. This is to allow a few to make more money.
sorry for the tirade but I get madder every time I try to figure out this muddled mess. Some loophole here, vague explanation there.
My instructor said "you need to be a Lawyer to figure it all out" to a student. Student replies "I must be a bad one because I've been a lawyer for years."