found this.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/14/ntsb.s ... ef=24hours
CNN zenith report
Moderator: drseti
Un warranted bad press
I did a search on the NTSB site. There were only a handfull of fatal accidents involving this aircraft. None of which had anything to do with flutter! 
u know. i have heard about this before on the CH-200's. a guy i know bought a ch-250 and the only difference i could find between the 200 and 250 was he took the wing tanks out and put 36 gal behind the seat. i was a bit Leary to ferry the airplane back but the guy really wanted it so i did. i personally didn't like flying the airplane and it gave me a real weird feeling. once i got on the ground is when a few of my friends started telling me about the wing flutter. thanks guys for letting me know this now.. lol..
here is the ANN report of it.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... b8ded29f4d&
here is the ANN report of it.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... b8ded29f4d&
The Zodiac design is pretty old and should be well tested by the factory. What might be happening here is the airplane properly built and rigged is fine and safe but there is a slim margin for errors in construction and overspeed due control system design, inaccurate static system installation and modern high HP engines. No manufacturer can test all builder modifications so they should rule modified airplanes out. Just concentrate on the E, SLSA and airplanes built to the plans
Watch some of the ANN opinions other than reporting. I like their reporting but the Zoom Cambell stuff has been suspect. I read US aviator for years but took some of the editorial as opinion. They have been doing a good job with the ANN reporting and I still subscribe.
I do think NTSB is starting to wake up and realize what the LSA manufacturers have been selling has some undesirable characteristics and is going to test further. A little independent NTSB testing of SLSA designs will go a long way to improving the breeds and probably be a little alarming.
Watch some of the ANN opinions other than reporting. I like their reporting but the Zoom Cambell stuff has been suspect. I read US aviator for years but took some of the editorial as opinion. They have been doing a good job with the ANN reporting and I still subscribe.
I do think NTSB is starting to wake up and realize what the LSA manufacturers have been selling has some undesirable characteristics and is going to test further. A little independent NTSB testing of SLSA designs will go a long way to improving the breeds and probably be a little alarming.
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KSCessnaDriver
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:15 pm
- Location: KOJC
While I know this could affect lots of people. I don't think much will come of it. Like 90% of what the NTSB tells the FAA, the FAA will sit and do nothing.
However, why should the NTSB be involved in testing. Either the LSA meets the ATSM standards and testing or it doesn't. It would be fair to bring them in after the fact. Perhaps the FAA could test more, but the only thing I see them possibly doing is completely banning the ATSM standards, and forcing the planes to be certified under Part 23 (which is very cost prohibitive.)
However, why should the NTSB be involved in testing. Either the LSA meets the ATSM standards and testing or it doesn't. It would be fair to bring them in after the fact. Perhaps the FAA could test more, but the only thing I see them possibly doing is completely banning the ATSM standards, and forcing the planes to be certified under Part 23 (which is very cost prohibitive.)
KSCessnaDriver (ATP MEL, Commerical LTA-Airship/SEL, Private SES, CFI/CFII)
LSA's flown: Remos G3, Flight Design CTSW, Aeronca L-16, Jabiru J170
LSA's flown: Remos G3, Flight Design CTSW, Aeronca L-16, Jabiru J170
I hope they don't do some knee jerk reaction based on a few manufacturers rush to get airplanes to market. The manufacturers need to step back and look to see how their airplane will perform after some wear and normal use. Cessna used to do accelerated testing in all areas of the country before releasing the design for production. Even back to the Cessna 140 days. It would mean a lot to me knowing what was done by the LSA manufacturer after the ATSM tests were completed.
The Light Sport certification is the only way any smaller company can get a new design to market. I have been really really happy to have new airplane designs to look at that are potentially useful in a flight school after so many dry years.
Maybe LAMA should do a test flight as part of the audit process. Then assign a rating scale based on how it flies. Not a score on handling but instead a measure of how easy it flies and predictable characteristics. More advanced pilots want the performance and can handle some quirks. They would be just fine with an high performance LSA. Somebody new just wants to get in the air easily and concentrate on learning how to fly in a reasonable amount of time.
Based on hours and proficiency the insurance companies can look at the airplane rating to determine rate and insurable uses. An advanced handling airplane might not be good for a flight school but an individual owner or flying club would be fine.
Manufacturers can make changes and have the airplane retested anytime.
Just an idea. We might already have that with the LSA speed limit sign offs. Build the airplane for the different speed classes. Install a set of high speed wings and tail as you progress. Modular LSA.
Sonex is close with a bunch of different variations.
The Light Sport certification is the only way any smaller company can get a new design to market. I have been really really happy to have new airplane designs to look at that are potentially useful in a flight school after so many dry years.
Maybe LAMA should do a test flight as part of the audit process. Then assign a rating scale based on how it flies. Not a score on handling but instead a measure of how easy it flies and predictable characteristics. More advanced pilots want the performance and can handle some quirks. They would be just fine with an high performance LSA. Somebody new just wants to get in the air easily and concentrate on learning how to fly in a reasonable amount of time.
Based on hours and proficiency the insurance companies can look at the airplane rating to determine rate and insurable uses. An advanced handling airplane might not be good for a flight school but an individual owner or flying club would be fine.
Manufacturers can make changes and have the airplane retested anytime.
Just an idea. We might already have that with the LSA speed limit sign offs. Build the airplane for the different speed classes. Install a set of high speed wings and tail as you progress. Modular LSA.
Sonex is close with a bunch of different variations.