Flight Design Model Questions

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:12 am

I may be in the market for an LSA and a CTSW is for sale locally. From what I can tell, the CTLS might better serve my desire for more of a cross-country plane (but not sure I can find a used one I can afford). I read the MC literature and wonder what market niche it fits best?
My interest is not in sight-seeing but in more long-range travel (I'm stepping down from a T210M).

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:17 am

an 06 ctsw is, on balance as good as an ls for cross country flying.

its probably lighter and has better access to luggage,

the mc fits the trainer market best.

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:26 am

Can you be more specific in your comments, please?
The literature on the Flight Design site is not consistent and doesn't give a lot of information on which to decide the differences.
When you say the CW is as good as an LS for cross-country, what flight characteristics lead you to say that? I thought the LS was longer and might have better stability? Do you think based on your comparison flying that it is not so? I'd fly on A/P quite a lot.
When you say better access to baggage, do you mean while in flight, or in the size of a baggage door, or what?
If the MC is aimed at the trainer market, what feature makes it less desireable than the CW or LS for a personal plane? Is the weight or fuel capacity not so good?
I wish the FD people had a web site with a side-by-side listing of attributes. If someone knows of one, please let me know.
Thanks

3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:10 am

For your stated mission the MC would not be a good choice. It is about 100 knot airplane, carries less fuel, and has less useful load. The CTWS and the CTLS are both 155-120 knot cruise airplanes. Both carry the same fuel load and burn about 5 GPH. The CTLS with the longer fuse is more stable kind of like a touring car compared to a sports car. The "D" windows give a bigger feeling to the cockpit while the only actual space that is bigger is the hat shelf. The hat shelf allows you storage space that is accessable to the pilot in flight, but it takes away from the luggage area. The CTSW has a larger bagage area and the different shaped bagage doors make loading a little easier. The SW has about 50 pounds more useful load, around 600 pounds. The down side is you don't get the upgraded landing gear, the oil and water thermostats, and maybe the advanced avionics package.

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:20 am

Good info. Thanks a lot. It would be nice to fly both the CT versions. I know of a couple of SW's locally, but no LS's. Maybe at one of the Expos coming up.

Super Cub · Post by **Super Cub** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:31 am

Go to ctflier.com and that forum will answer all your questions. I have a LS and my friend has a SW. We fly up to 350nm legs. He can run away from me in the SW. It's lighter, smaller wheel pants and has its' prop pitch for speed.

Pawlander · Post by **Pawlander** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:45 pm

I have a CTLS that we use mainly for cross-country flights in the 600-mile range. Typically we fly those with one stop so we don't have longer than 3-hr legs, and we carry 4 hours of fuel.

The CTLS is a great cross-country plane with creature comforts like leather seats, lumbar support, and 8" more shoulder room than a 172. How much of the 34-gallon fuel capacity you can use is governed by the weight of your passengers and gear.

Equipped with a two axis autopilot tied to the Garmin 696, XM Weather, and the ballistic chute, it is a much more pleasurable, fun -- and I think safer -- experience than the Cessnas and Cherokees I used to fly.

Where are you located?

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:40 am

Golly, that's a l-o-n-g step down. To move from a T210, there may be some trade-offs you need to experience first-hand, despite the range and gee-whiz avionics of the LSA products.

A LSA like a CT may be - for you - just grand for your stated intentions...but it also may not be. Cockpit space is going to feel significantly tighter, these LSA a/c are much smaller and so more active in flight than you are accustomed to, you are unlikely to file IFR in the air when the wx goes south, and then there's that speed differential. I don't mean to disparage the choice of moving to an LSA (I'm planning on that change myself...) but probably one helpful step would be to fly a 3-hr leg (better yet, 2) and then see what you think about this being your normal 'ride' while touring or making miles cross-country.

Enjoy the flying part of the 'shopping' and good luck to you.

rfane · Post by **rfane** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:24 am

I agree with Jack that you need to fly some LSA.

There is a Flight Design dealer in Cedar Rapids. Also looks like they might have a CTLS available to get checked out in. Here's a link to their website: http://iowaflighttraining.com/index.html

Pawlander · Post by **Pawlander** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:43 am

There is also a flying club in Des Moines that just bought a CTLS.

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:37 am

I have plans to fly in a Jabiru 250 and the CTSW locally in the next few weeks. But, it is not possible to fly either of them for long legs, thus my question here. Thanks to all the replies.
I know Tim Busch of Iowa Flight Training well and might fly his CTSW but I have access to another locally and will more likely fly that one.
Don't worry about whether I'll like the small plane after the 210 - that a function of my situation and I am quite confident that given my missions and reasons for flying I will be looking for a "cross-country" LSA. Thus, again, my question on suitability for longer flights.
I called Flight Design in Connecticut yesterday and asked a salesman for the differences in in-flight characteristics between the SW and LS. He mentioned the weight and speed differences and said they were essentially the same in flight characteristics and stability, which I was interested to hear. I'd have thought the LS would be a bit better than he implied.

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:42 pm

Just one other thought for you re: picking a suitable 'cross-country LSA' - which is of course a bit of a contradiction in terms. Altho' it's a low-wing, you might want to look at the Lightning that's being built outside of Nashville, TN. It's Jab-powered (which you seem amenable to) and is probably able to fly the fastest legs available to any of the S-LSA's now available. I think 3Dreaming flies one, if you'd like more info on that option.

As you will know from your T210 experience, there is quite a difference between having the option of being able to 'fly in the system' when doing distance flying, even if it's for only a portion of the flight and in only light IFR conditions. Thus, moving to a S-LSA (and so, to VFR-only flight), maximum permitted speed can be a significant contributor to one's satisfaction if hoping to routinely fly distances. And I'll bet there are Lightnings flying that clock better than 120 kt enroute speeds.

Good luck on the trial flights and the shopping. That's when the fun starts... <s>

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:34 pm

Lightning is built in the same factory as the Jabiru. I saw them. Very nice looking machines and they are popular.
Again, my wife can not get in and out of low wing airplanes. And, I don't like them anyway.
I agree that not being able to fly in the system will be an irritant, but with synthetic vision and a current obstacle database, I think I can make the most of VMC.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:41 pm

jnmeade wrote:I agree that not being able to fly in the system will be an irritant,

Tell me about it! For decades I flew heavy IFR, using the best avionics available, stayed current, loved it, and was considered safe and legal by the FAA, even though I had major (undiagnosed) coronary arterial desease (95% blockage of the left anterior descending artery). Ah, but since it wasn't diagnosed, I was safe!

Two years ago, after fully recuperating from surgery that not only saved my life, but also potentially added decades to it, I was suddenly no longer safe to fly IFR. With a lapsed medical, I am happy to have the LSA option. Do I miss flying the system? Yes. Do I feel I'd be a hazard in the system? Less than I was before the surgery. But will I keep flying LSA and loving it? You bet! So will you, I'm sure.

Mark Gregor · Post by **Mark Gregor** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:18 pm

Jim,

Where are you located in Iowa?
I live in south central MN. Cant be too far from you. I am also a farmer.

I have a cessna 182 and just purchased a Tecnam P2008. Have about 40 hours in it since I got it in january. I would enjoy flying down there sometime to meet you and talk LSAs. I have flown both the CTSW and CTLS. Have not flown the Jab though. I looked at every LSA at sebring and oshkosh the last few years and decided on a tecnam.

How tall are you? You said You weigh 250. That will be a major consideration. CTs have the largest cabins and thats why they are the most popular in my opinion. My P2008 has a 48 inch cabin but still does not feel as large as my 182 at 44 inches.

Im looking for somewhere to go tomorrow or sunday if the wind goes down. Will you be around?

Jake

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Flight Design Model Questions

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