Sport Pilot Talk

My understanding is that the Arion Lightning can go faster for sure but the LS version is kept within LSA limits by essentially artificial means ( different , more draggy wheel pants, limitations on the engine rpm etc )

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:It’s all about the paperwork

True. And unfortunately, under the FARs, if an aircraft has ever been authorized or operated outside of the LSA limits, it can never go back to becoming an LSA.

A case in point is the Ercoupe 415C, originally designed and certified for 1260# max gross. Many decades ago, an STC came out allowing an increase to 1400#. Remember that the LSA rules didn't exist then. There was no reason not to, so most 'Coupe owners got the STC. That's why today there are so few LSA 'Coupes. (Even many of those 415Cs listed in Barnstormer or Trade-A-Plane under the Light Sport heading are probably not LSA legal.)

After the LSA rules were enacted 15 years ago, Univair, the company that owns the Ercoupe type certificate, came out with an STC to increase the max gross of the 415C to 1320#. Those that had never bumped up to 1400 could now get a gross weight increase and stay LSAs. But those which had received the 1400 STC can never go back, even if they purchase the 1320 STC.

Warmi wrote:kept within LSA limits by essentially artificial means ( different , more draggy wheel pants, limitations on the engine rpm etc )

True. One of the modern Cub clones uses a 180 HP Lycoming engine, and easily exceeds the 120 kt Vh limit. The LSA version is physically identical, except for a placard limiting continuous engine operation to (I believe) 2100 RPM. (I wonder how many owners comply with that limitation?)

Another popular trick is to build a non-LSA with huge fuel tanks and a high max gross weight, and then sell an LSA version with a placard limiting fuel to the tabs, to stay within LSA max gross limits with 2 people (who can now enjoy their very short flight).

drseti wrote:Another popular trick is to build a non-LSA with huge fuel tanks and a high max gross weight, and then sell an LSA version with a placard limiting fuel to the tabs, to stay within LSA max gross limits with 2 people (who can now enjoy their very short flight).

That’s basically telling people - go ahead and fly it as it was designed for, the plane will easily take it , it is just stupid paperwork.

Warmi wrote:

drseti wrote:Another popular trick is to build a non-LSA with huge fuel tanks and a high max gross weight, and then sell an LSA version with a placard limiting fuel to the tabs, to stay within LSA max gross limits with 2 people (who can now enjoy their very short flight).

That’s basically telling people - go ahead and fly it as it was designed for, the plane will easily take it , it is just stupid paperwork.

"The path of least resistance."

Warmi wrote: it is just stupid paperwork.

Which is basically the argument anarchists use, with respect to all laws.

I have flown the arion lightning and with the jabiru six cylinder engine I think it’s going to be a stretch to get over 120 knots. With a bigger engine I’m sure it would be faster.

Mark G

Hey Mark what was the operating RPM? I thought i read they tooks some rpms away with yellow paint.

Mark Gregor wrote:One very important point that has not been mentioned is indicated airspeed vs true air speed.

The LSA rules are max 120kts CAS or calibrated airspeed which is for all practical purposes the same as indicated air speed.

The Tecnam LSAs with the 914 turbo are quite a bit faster at altitude.

I regularly fly over 130 TAS when above 7500 ft while the CAS is at or below the 120 limit so perfectly legal.

If your looking to go faster in an LSA check out a Tecnam P2008 or Astore with the 914.

Mark Gregor
Advanced Aircraft LLC
507-327-9465

But that still doesn't matter. It's a design limitation for the aircraft, not a speed limit for the pilot, regardless.

TimTaylor wrote:It's a design limitation for the aircraft, not a speed limit for the pilot, regardless.

Completely true, if the aircraft can be flown by Sport Pilots. If the design Vh exceeds 120 kts, it can't be an LSA, no matter what speed the pilot chooses to fly it.

Not disagreeing.

I’m just saying is an Aircraft indicating 120 knots at 8500 feet is going a lot faster than and aircraft indicating 120 knots at 2000 feet and both would be legal LSAs.

Some LSAs are a lot faster than others.

Mark G

Mark Gregor wrote:Not disagreeing.

I’m just saying is an Aircraft indicating 120 knots at 8500 feet is going a lot faster than and aircraft indicating 120 knots at 2000 feet and both would be legal LSAs.

Some LSAs are a lot faster than others.

Mark G

I just don't want to perpetuate the misconception by some that the LSA 120 knots is a speed limit for pilots. It is not. It is a design specification.