Sport Pilot Talk

What I really want is an all-electric LSA aircraft!

After owning a Tesla I actually dread oil, gasoline, internal combustion motors, and associated maintence. This is coming from a life-long motorhead who has owned motorcycles, cars, boats and other toys... and even doing a substantial amount of mechanical work as well.

I know that there are a few electric aircraft in development.
Think we will ever see it in LSA?

Battery weights will come down. The infrastructure for charging at airports, especially on cross-country trips will be challenging.

Electric Training Aircraft:
https://electricflyer.com/

Electric Commercial Charter:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyboga ... 4cc7ef2c3b

Not unless the FAA changes the regulations. As it stands now if it is a powered, it must be by a single recipocating engine.

The issue is not technology, Richard. It's ASTM rules. They specify "single reciprocating engine." They did that to rule out turbines. But this is a good example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, as it also rules out electric motors. (Of course, electric propulsion wasn't even on ASTM's radar when the Consensus Standards were established.)

I’ve had very little trouble over the years with combustion engines, be they automobiles or aircraft. Can’t say as much for electronic devices. Thanks, but no thanks...I’ll stick with reciprocating engines for now.

drseti wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:33 pm The issue is not technology, Richard. It's ASTM rules. They specify "single reciprocating engine." They did that to rule out turbines. But this is a good example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, as it also rules out electric motors. (Of course, electric propulsion wasn't even on ASTM's radar when the Consensus Standards were established.)

Is it ASTM or FAA? Did one mirror the other? The way the FAA regulation is written it would preclude an experimental amateur built aircraft from being a LSA with electric power.

3Dreaming wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:21 am
Is it ASTM or FAA?

I was given to believe it was ASTM, although I don't actually have the standard to look it up (because $$$).

Did one mirror the other?

That's entirely possible - but raises the chicken or egg paradox.

The way the FAA regulation is written it would preclude an experimental amateur built aircraft from being a LSA with electric power.

I hadn't thought about that, but you're right!

Sling 2 Pilot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:59 am I’ve had very little trouble over the years with combustion engines, be they automobiles or aircraft. Can’t say as much for electronic devices. Thanks, but no thanks...I’ll stick with reciprocating engines for now.

Understandable. Most people are comfortable with what they are familiar with.

Imagine: No oil changes, no carb floats, no carb rebuilds, no lead deposits, no gearbox overhauls (massive instant torque and almost unlimited RPM.) No rubber replacement. No fuel pressure issues. No vapor lock. No ignition modules. No carb heat. No fuel sampling. No CO2.

Airframe inspection would be similar, but engine maintence would be massively reduced, as would operational costs (maintence and fuel.)

Just plug it in when you’re done flying and be fully charged the next day. Hanger charging. Imagine electric climate control! Significantly less noise in flight!

If it’s not insanely cost prohibitive, I’m totally game for electric flight. LSA or not.

As has always been the case with e-vehicles, limited range, long, impractical recharge times, limited infrastructure and not small expense are severe drawbacks that go beyond that which is 'familiar' when it comes to aircraft.

One must also seriously consider the extremely severe damage to the environment that results from mining that rare lithium that is needed to make the batteries which then creates a substantial recycling issue down the road and a further expensive battery replacement for those who tend to own things longer than a few years.

Yes there WILL be wondrous improvements in batteries, most of which now in the works involve replacing lithium with other more common elements, and they will be most welcome. But until I can recharge a vehicle to 350+ miles range in the time it takes to fill a gas tank and make a bio pit stop? I do believe I shall take a pass.

chicagorandy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm But until I can recharge a vehicle to 350+ miles range in the time it takes to fill a gas tank and make a bio pit stop? I do believe I shall take a pass.

Tesla does that now, by pre-conditioning the battery (cooling) as you navigate to high-speed DC Supercharger... most of which are at a Wawa or similar. On a road trip, that’s over 4 hours of driving at 80 mph.

Most drivers “bio stop” sooner. The bottom half of the battery charges faster than the top half. Realistically, stopping every 2.5 hours on a road trip will have your car ready to go by the time you can relieve yourself and get a cup of coffee.

For daily driving, nothing is more convenient than charging in your garage while you sleep, and having a fully-fueled car ready to go in the morning.

Hangar charging for local flights will be easy. Cross-country charging will be a challenge.

Just some questions
How do they plan to heat. Since most heaters draw alot of juice to make it work. Unless you live and fly in a warm climate.
Some of these charging units are very expensive I have been told.
When battery needs to be replaced what's the cost. ( You might be shocked when you find out)
And back to saving the environment .How is power made and how does it get to you.
It all sounds good but I believe there is still alot of untold truth to be told.
I realize we now live in an electrical gadget world. It's coming but I am going to stick to what I have for as long as I can.

Electric motors are by far more reliable and overall much better choice, no question about it - too bad just nowhere near being practical as airplane power plants at this stage.

Unclefish wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:09 pm Just some questions
How do they plan to heat. Since most heaters draw alot of juice to make it work. Unless you live and fly in a warm climate.

From flying electric model airplanes I suspect there would be a way to capture heat from the process of creating propulsion. Whether it comes off the motor, speed controller, or batteries.

Yes. The current Tesla Model 3 will draw heat from the stators, in addition to the heat pump / air conditioner. The earlier models have an electric heater plus the air conditioner. There is also a battery coolant / heater system to optimize battery temperature for charging, optimal use and longevity.

Batteries do not like to be too cold, and can loose up to 35% capacity due to low temperatures. This would be problematic at higher altitudes unless some battery heating is done to compensate.

Conversely, batteries like to be cooled before charging to pre-condition for fast DC Supercharger speeds.

Theoretically, on an aircraft, you could also reverse pitch the prop to slow you down on descent AND regen energy back to the battery. Kind of like Teslas mostly use regenerative brakes.

Electric Aircraft are the future. There are quite a few electric aircraft in development and the Pipistrel Alpha Electric was recently certified for use. An American company, Bye Aerospace, is well on the way to getting its 2 seat trainer FAA certified with a three hour range and a four place aircraft with a 4 hour range and both are simply stunning.
Long anticipated Light Sport Rule change will allow electric motors as well as other goodies to expand the availability of aircraft classified as light sport.

The biggest advantage to electric is cost per flying hour, $3.00 no fuel, no oil, no engine failure on TO, TBOs that cost as much as a new Ford Escape, and they are environmentally friendly. Look the photos of the actual plan under certification.

Battery Technology is the future of EVs and these advances will spin off into the GA world as well.

Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM Aircraft

"they are environmentally friendly"

In fairness.... everything is relative - they still have to use the power grid to recharge - nuclear & fossil fuel mostly - and make them lithium batteries.