Aircraft purchase "Short List"

[yabiah]

Hello all,
I am waiting to complete my SPL check ride and looking forward to aircraft ownership.
I'm just thinking out loud here as a way to gain some info, knowledge, opinions and real world experience.
My mission as I see it now;
One or two cross country flights per year. Two or more after I retire.
$100 burgers with friends and family. I'm expecting 80 - 100 hours per year.

Somewhat must haves; 2 sticks, yokes or "stokes", Auto Pilot and BRS, and keep in mind, I have all my LSA hours in the Remos GX.
And here it is, the "Short List" in no particular order;
Remos GX - My training aircraft. Comfortable, capable, better than average useful load.
Dova DV-1 Skylark
Evektor Sportstar Plus / Max
Czech Sport / Piper Sport
Arion Lightning

[3Dreaming]

Whatever airplane you choose look beyond the airplane. Support is more important than looks. That includes day to day parts availability in the US, and factory support for changes and upgrades.

[drseti]

One more you should add to your short list is the Bristell NG5. It bears a strong resemblance to the SportCruiser and SportStar (no coincidence there, because all 3 were designed by the same engineer, and manufactured on the same airport). It is very refined, with the best fit, finish, and equipment of the three (not surprising, since it's the newest design).

Similarly equipped, Bristell has the best useful load, the widest cabin, the greatest creature comforts, and the best handling characteristics. It's also by far the most expensive (you get what you pay for). I own a Bristell taildragger, as well as a SportStar (my second one), and have flown and worked on the SportCruiser, so have had a chance to directly compare all three.

The Bristell currently has better US support than the other two. Parts, service, and Letters of Authorization for mods have been no problem. But lead time on a new one is running something like 6 to 10 months. There are quite a few available on the used market.

Full disclosure: I do know both the designer and the US distributor personally, but have no commercial affiliation with them.

[drseti]

Hello all,
I am waiting to complete my SPL check ride

Yabiah,
Should you happen to need one, I happen to be a DPE specializing in LSAs, and am willing to travel anywhere (at the applicant's expense, of course) to give practical exams. I invite you to visit my DPE website:

http://SportPilotExaminer.US

[Warmi]

I trained on Remos GX as well but , while a decent aircraft, nothing really special as compared to other options - rather limited visibility ,not especially comfortable and , as far as I can tell, no official support in US for these planes anymore.

Anyway, if you are seriously planning to spend a lot of money , you got to test ride each one of them.
In my case I had a similar list and ended up having a demo flight on each plane on my list ( frankly, almost all my flights were “discovery flights “ I purchased myself at various flight schools rather than actual dealer demos - easier that way ) …

And to 3dreaming’s point - support is paramount - I keep reading horror stories about lack of support and parts for certain LSAs ( SportCruiser wink wink ) and I am so glad i happened to own a plane that, at least so far, I had no problems obtain parts for in a relatively timely manner ( even when sourced from across the pond )

[yabiah]

Thanks all for the replies.
I'll keep the thread updated as decisions are made and emails are answered.

Whatever airplane you choose look beyond the airplane. Support is more important than looks. That includes day to day parts availability in the US, and factory support for changes and upgrades.

Agreed. I will be reaching out to each manufacturer regarding support & parts availability, shipping costs and the like.

One more you should add to your short list is the Bristell NG5.

Bristell; out of my price range.
Tecnam has a few models that could work.

I trained on Remos GX as well but , while a decent aircraft, nothing really special as compared to other options - rather limited visibility ,not especially comfortable and , as far as I can tell, no official support in US for these planes anymore.

Anyway, if you are seriously planning to spend a lot of money , you got to test ride each one of them.
In my case I had a similar list and ended up having a demo flight on each plane on my list ( frankly, almost all my flights were “discovery flights “ I purchased myself at various flight schools rather than actual dealer demos - easier that way ) …

And to 3dreaming’s point - support is paramount - I keep reading horror stories about lack of support and parts for certain LSAs ( SportCruiser wink wink ) and I am so glad i happened to own a plane that, at least so far, I had no problems obtain parts for in a relatively timely manner ( even when sourced from across the pond )

While I'm not "seriously planning to spend a lot of money," I do plan on getting some hours in as many as I can while my search continues.
Or school has 5 aircraft (Remos GX) and as far as I know, support from Germany has been acceptable.

[3Dreaming]

I noticed that your list is comprised of all low wing airplanes except for the familiar Remos. Do you have an aversion to high wing airplane? Flight Design Might be worth adding to the list.

[ShawnM]

And to 3dreaming’s point - support is paramount - I keep reading horror stories about lack of support and parts for certain LSAs ( SportCruiser wink wink ) and I am so glad i happened to own a plane that, at least so far, I had no problems obtain parts for in a relatively timely manner ( even when sourced from across the pond )

Warmi is right, if customer support is important, and it should be, DO NOT BUY A SPORTCTUISER unless you plan on converting it to E-LSA the day you buy it. There is ZERO customer support and no such thing as an LOA for changes to the aircraft. Don't bother sending them an email with a question and expect a response. You'll have a better chance of seeing Bigfoot than getting a response from the factory.

That said, I love my SportCruiser but it's an E-LSA.

[yabiah]

Update #1 with questions.
I have inquired about a few aircraft that I'm interested in.
1) One is somewhat local (same state), and I plan on checking it out after the 13th of Jan.
2) Another is a state away and will require a commercial flight but it's awfully cold up there this time of year.
3) And yet another is in Louisiana.

Aircraft 1 is a 2010 E-LSA, 70 hrs TTAE, Jab 3300, GRT EFIS, autopilot, gps & expensive. Haven't seen the logs. One owner/builder.
Pretty much brand new? Concerns with the lack of hours flown over the years? US support & still being manufactured.

Aircraft 2 is a 2007 E-LSA, 750 hrs TTAF, Jab 3300 Gen 3, Dynon FlightDek, autopilot, gps & inexpensive. Haven't seen the logs. Two owners. Well worn? Well cared for? US support & still being manufactured.

Aircraft 3 is a 2006 S-SLA, 830 hrs TTAE, Rotax 912ULS, AV-30 but no glass and no autopilot. Somewhat expensive and will need an autopilot installed. I have all the logs and they're great although I am concerned with multiple avionics upgrades (AI, DG, GPS) with no LOA's. I've watched Dr Paul's LSA purchase webinar and he'd walk away. No local support but still being manufactured. This would be a good candidate for E-LSA.

What else should I be thinking about?

[drseti]

I am concerned with multiple avionics upgrades (AI, DG, GPS) with no LOA's. ... This would be a good candidate for E-LSA.

Maybe not. To convert an SLSA to an ELSA requires an airworthinesd inspection by a Designated Airworthiness Representative. One of the things a DAR is going to look for is unauthorized modifications. In order to go ELSA, the aircraft must be found to a legal SLSA. If this one had multiple mods with no LoAs, the DAR is not going to be able to sign it off as an ELSA until those mods are removed. (They can, of course, be reinstalled later, but that could be a major hassle.)

See my webinar "Fast Track to Experimental" at:

http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/elsa.mp4

[Warmi]

My default choice would be a Rotax based plane. It is relatively hard enough to find a Rotax mechanic but with Jabiru you are pretty much down to a few locations.
Unless you can do everything yourself , this is actually much more important than it seems when buying a plane - there is a reason why Jabiru ( or auto-conversions) are pretty much always cheaper than Rotax based planes.

Of course , for this particular one if LOA is an issue then you have to kind of weight the cost of getting it ready for inspection and conversion against other options ( or waiting for another Rotax based plane ) but to me ,the choice of engine + support availability would always be the overriding factor over pretty much everything else.

[Dan Little]

Whatever airplane you choose look beyond the airplane. Support is more important than looks. That includes day to day parts availability in the US, and factory support for changes and upgrades.

Can't emphasis this point enough. 1st time plane owner here and having a reliable A&P available is, IMHO, most critical.

[fatsportpilot]

I don't remember where I heard it but I was told that the Dova Skylark had really bad problems with the fuel system design.

[fatsportpilot]

I don't remember where I heard it but I was told that the Dova Skylark had really bad problems with the fuel system design.

I found out. Apparently they come without a fuel return line so unless one is installed, it's very vulnerable to vapor lock in hot climates and a few Dovas have gone down that way. But if it does have the return line then it looks like a very good airplane. The empty weight is so low. I wonder if they use very thin aluminum.

[drseti]

Most all-metal LSAs use .020 (20 thousandths of an inch) aluminum skins. That's what we engineers call oh-two-oh, and Burt Rutan calls oh-two-thin.