According to the W&B the GTX330 is 1.1 kg (2.4 lbs).rfane wrote:Art,
My CT weighs in at 750 empty. Similarly equipped, except I have the 327 transponder rather than the 330. How much does the TIS portion of the 330 weigh?
CTSW problems
Moderator: drseti
It was delivered today at 1200. I had to pilot taxi it to the tie down. I didn't have the heart to see if it still had problems. I took out the GPS and am not learning to fly it. The ceilings are closing in so real flying will probably be out until after Christmas.Super Cub wrote:Do you have an idea of when you will receive your CT? It sure sounds like
a long wait!
-
CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
art,
glad you got your ct and sorry the weather isn't good.
i'll assume your trim issue is adjusted, even if it isn't stick forces should be really light. the trim didn't mean much to me for the first few hours.
between the trim and avionics communicating and any other squawks, if they aren't all yet perfect, try flying. you might come up with a few more.
it might be helpful to talk them over on the ct forum and the result would likely be that you can share the info with your dealer and probably have remaining things fixed while you wait.
good time to open your mind a little and look for the merit in this design. as long as you are determined to be negative you will always be able to find reasons to be negative.
this is a light sport aircraft, full of comprimises to achieve it's design mission and the resulting design makes most of us owners really happy. give it 1/2 a chance.
best regards,
ed cesnalis
glad you got your ct and sorry the weather isn't good.
i'll assume your trim issue is adjusted, even if it isn't stick forces should be really light. the trim didn't mean much to me for the first few hours.
between the trim and avionics communicating and any other squawks, if they aren't all yet perfect, try flying. you might come up with a few more.
it might be helpful to talk them over on the ct forum and the result would likely be that you can share the info with your dealer and probably have remaining things fixed while you wait.
good time to open your mind a little and look for the merit in this design. as long as you are determined to be negative you will always be able to find reasons to be negative.
this is a light sport aircraft, full of comprimises to achieve it's design mission and the resulting design makes most of us owners really happy. give it 1/2 a chance.
best regards,
ed cesnalis
Re: CTSW problems
My experience was similar, only worse. I ordered in November 2006, and finally got it 13 months later. It had numerous problems that shocked my mechanic to the point of dismay several times, and maybe someday I will talk about those issues, but the bottom line is that about 90% of the time FD only gave excuses or no response at all.artp wrote:I am now the “owner” of a CTSW. I paid for it in June for August delivery. In September they had not finished setting it up. In October it was waiting on a part. In November it was “delivered” and I signed the bill of sale but they took it back because of radio problems, trim problems, and the GPS was not talking to the Dynon 120. They tried to deliver a few weeks later but the GPS was not talking to the autopilot. A couple of weeks later I went to Lancaster to check it out. It had a steady low CHT alarm with a reading between 0 and 30 degrees. I am now 6 weeks into my warranty and I have yet to have a plane.
To quote my mechanic,"These aircraft were thrown together in a hurry, probably to meet the demand." Unfortunately, that meant a lot of fixing at my expense and many delays that would NEVER be tolerated in the certified aircraft world.
I believe that I now have a far better aircraft than what was delivered, and FD to its credit has recently provided some upgrades for the older models, including a credit for one of the major upgrades to offset the cost of the work.
The thing I find truly disgusting are the cheerleaders for the CT who insult and impugn the character and motives of those who point out the flaws, when they ought to be a force for change, rather than a force for sweeping it under the rug or force for denial. All that does is make them look like the only thing they care about is the monetary value of their plane. Unfortunately, all that will do in the end is drive down the value when they show how willing they are to hide the truth about your experience, my experience and that of many other buyers and potential buyers.
FD has caught on to that and has been making strides to improve customer relations, in spite of the whitwashing that continually emanates from the 'ctflyer' forum.
Hey Thorp.
What might be better here before WWIII erupts.
Start a new thread. List a dateline of events.
Order date, payment date, delivery date.
Also list problems found and at what hours Total time you found them.
Condition inspection items, likes, dislikes etc.
What fixes were made and how they worked.
What items the dealer fixed and how long did it take.
Did the problem come back
It would give other operators something useable and educate others on what areas to concentrate on when buying used.
Nobody will fault you for something breaking or being assembled wrong You have to say what was found.
What might be better here before WWIII erupts.
Start a new thread. List a dateline of events.
Order date, payment date, delivery date.
Also list problems found and at what hours Total time you found them.
Condition inspection items, likes, dislikes etc.
What fixes were made and how they worked.
What items the dealer fixed and how long did it take.
Did the problem come back
It would give other operators something useable and educate others on what areas to concentrate on when buying used.
Nobody will fault you for something breaking or being assembled wrong You have to say what was found.
Good points
Good points Cub Flyer...
I think we all know that no company is perfect and that there will always be a "lemon" in the batch. I have a fifty five thousand dollar car I can't set the time on it because the button to do that doesn't work but that doesn't mean the company is bad or the all the rest of automobiles they manufactured are bad.
Thorpe is venting because he's had a bad time with Flight Design. He's not the only one but he's certainly in the minority like I am with my clock issue.
FD is a new start up company in a new "start up" area of flying. There's bound to be head aches. Flight Design in my opinion has been the leader in recognizing the "head aches" and diving in full steam to learn and make sure things go right.
Is my plane perfect....heck no...do I get terrific service....heck no....but for the most part we're dealing with a pretty darn good plane and a bunch of pretty darn good people that want to give you a good experience.
Then there's the pilots - everyone I know will bend over backwards to help you out.
I'm sure most of the LSA companies strive to be this way as well....
Roger H
I think we all know that no company is perfect and that there will always be a "lemon" in the batch. I have a fifty five thousand dollar car I can't set the time on it because the button to do that doesn't work but that doesn't mean the company is bad or the all the rest of automobiles they manufactured are bad.
Thorpe is venting because he's had a bad time with Flight Design. He's not the only one but he's certainly in the minority like I am with my clock issue.
FD is a new start up company in a new "start up" area of flying. There's bound to be head aches. Flight Design in my opinion has been the leader in recognizing the "head aches" and diving in full steam to learn and make sure things go right.
Is my plane perfect....heck no...do I get terrific service....heck no....but for the most part we're dealing with a pretty darn good plane and a bunch of pretty darn good people that want to give you a good experience.
Then there's the pilots - everyone I know will bend over backwards to help you out.
I'm sure most of the LSA companies strive to be this way as well....
Roger H
Wow. What is it about Flight Design airplanes that brings out complaints? There seem to be a lot of unhappy people out there. Are pilots and airplane owners up in arms over other Light Sport manufacturers and I just don't know about it? I think I'm going to head for a foxhole before the shooting starts. 
Re: Wow
Wow. Really? There are thousands of owners of CTs?Roger wrote:Wow here we go again...
I beleive it's two folks that have complained - maybe three. I can give you names of upwards of a thousand that haven't.
Why would you say such a thing without doing your homework?
Roger H
The problem is basically this, for anyone who wants to know the truth, rather than the whitewashed boilerplate from folks like Roger:
Many of the CTs sold in the US are from dealers that do not have an established service network. Although the CT is a good performing and economical S-LSA, you have to be careful with where you get your plane and who services it.
I think that this is in fact a general problem with all S-LSA, not confined to FlightDesign particularly.
Thats why Cessna and possibly Cirrus are serious contenders for this market because of their well established serivce/dealer network.
The problem I am having is that the one place where we owners should be getting support to overcome this problem, just happens to be run by Roger who is, for personal reasons, quite unhelpful to addressing this issue, and a host of other issues having to do with the shortcomings of the aircraft. There is no such thing as a perfect plane, but to hear Roger, it seems that the only problems with the CT are so incredibly minor that we should just all get together and have a gay old time at the sponsored flyins. Ugghhh!
Thanks for the suggestion. I do plan to post this information at some point, but I have been waiting on a few things from FD, and I dont wish to be overly critical of FD while they attempt to help me sort out some of the problems. (My beef is not with FD as much as it is with that cheerleading organization known as Ctflyer forum.)Cub flyer wrote:Hey Thorp.
What might be better here before WWIII erupts.
Start a new thread. List a dateline of events.
Order date, payment date, delivery date.
Also list problems found and at what hours Total time you found them.
Condition inspection items, likes, dislikes etc.
What fixes were made and how they worked.
What items the dealer fixed and how long did it take.
Did the problem come back
It would give other operators something useable and educate others on what areas to concentrate on when buying used.
Nobody will fault you for something breaking or being assembled wrong You have to say what was found.
However, I should mention just a few of the odd things about my plane, discovered shortly after it was delivered when my mechanic did a thorough inspection:
1) loose spark plug. it could be easily turned by hand.
2) loose wire at the firewall resulting in intermittent radio functionality
3) missing parts on the engine mounting
4) misinstalled aileron control
5) cracked muffler on engine
6) frayed sheafs on some engine wiring. a fire hazard.
7) mis-installed nose wheel pant, resulting in it bobbing
mis-installed air filterThats just a very short list. The most dangerous was the cracked muffler, which was due to the muffler having been mis-installed.
I would highly recommend that anyone taking delivery of a new aircraft from a Light Sport mfg. have it checked over thoroughly and dont assume all is OK.
Good point...PLEASE POST THE LONG LIST
Good point Thorpe....(WHERE'S THE LONG LIST?) get it out there man....
When buying anything of this value it should be checked over thoroughly especially an airplane. It's sad in this day and age that quality control isn't more sought after.
I had a piece of foam still resting in my tail cone when I took delivery. Could have got out of place, locked up the tail gear and led to my demise. Fortunately I found it on pre-flight.
These delivery issues are well discussed on CTflyer and I believe Charlie Tango has a list available for download to help folks out when taking delivery. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
I'm glad to see that you finally "cut loose" with "some of your problems". Hiding them and making accusations does no good. By letting them out it will give the other side information to respond with and show that you have credibility. Personally I would list the dealer and every "headache", time to fix, etc., etc. BUT do it in a professional and upfront manner.
The problem I have is you make it sound like this happens all the time - it doesn't. We also must understand this is a new and growing section of aviation. I think we all need to pitch in and help out and be as positive as we can. Most of us CTer's know there are headaches (you can certainly read about them all on CTflyer - including mine) BUT we also know that FD has absolutely no intention in doing this on purpose and has every intention in making a "perfect" delivery every time. #$%& happens.
The bottom line is...this is a great LSA airplane with over a thousand flying world wide. FD's intention has never been to make you unhappy!
Roger H
(and no I have no relationship with FD what so ever - other that I own one - fly in all over the country - and enjoy the heck out of it.)
When buying anything of this value it should be checked over thoroughly especially an airplane. It's sad in this day and age that quality control isn't more sought after.
I had a piece of foam still resting in my tail cone when I took delivery. Could have got out of place, locked up the tail gear and led to my demise. Fortunately I found it on pre-flight.
These delivery issues are well discussed on CTflyer and I believe Charlie Tango has a list available for download to help folks out when taking delivery. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
I'm glad to see that you finally "cut loose" with "some of your problems". Hiding them and making accusations does no good. By letting them out it will give the other side information to respond with and show that you have credibility. Personally I would list the dealer and every "headache", time to fix, etc., etc. BUT do it in a professional and upfront manner.
The problem I have is you make it sound like this happens all the time - it doesn't. We also must understand this is a new and growing section of aviation. I think we all need to pitch in and help out and be as positive as we can. Most of us CTer's know there are headaches (you can certainly read about them all on CTflyer - including mine) BUT we also know that FD has absolutely no intention in doing this on purpose and has every intention in making a "perfect" delivery every time. #$%& happens.
The bottom line is...this is a great LSA airplane with over a thousand flying world wide. FD's intention has never been to make you unhappy!
Roger H
(and no I have no relationship with FD what so ever - other that I own one - fly in all over the country - and enjoy the heck out of it.)
check list
Here's a check list that was posted in 06. Probably should be updated. Could pertain to all airplane deliveries and probably could use some more points. But it's a good starting point....
Wheel pant fasteners, check with allen wrenches and make sure they are seated in threads and not just feeling tight.
Slip / Skid ball adjustment (mine got off grossly by delivery)
Seats for cracks, try to bend top forward to see if cracked where seat meets bulkhead if rear strap does not have tension.
Rear seat straps need tension.
Learn how to adjust throttle / choke friction and have tools with you. It's not really safe to fly when loose and can go loose when least expected.
Check functionality of avionics, (I still have no audio out on my garmin 396)
Confirm accuracy of sight gauge numbers by using dipstick, they might suggest that you have a little more fuel than you actually do.
Check cockpit light and gauge lights. and all external lights, including which switches turn them off and on and how they are labeled.
Check all switches and their labels.
Learn what kind of oil is installed and get a spare quart for servicing.
Test transponder functionality.
Test all weather / terrain displays and alerts video and audio.
Test if avionics should pass along comm and or nav frequencies.
Test to see if auto pilot can fly flight plan from other radio if this is an expected feature.
Check quality of composite and paint.
Check quality of windows.
Ask for samples of composiclean
Check heater
Check carb heat
....Roger H
Wheel pant fasteners, check with allen wrenches and make sure they are seated in threads and not just feeling tight.
Slip / Skid ball adjustment (mine got off grossly by delivery)
Seats for cracks, try to bend top forward to see if cracked where seat meets bulkhead if rear strap does not have tension.
Rear seat straps need tension.
Learn how to adjust throttle / choke friction and have tools with you. It's not really safe to fly when loose and can go loose when least expected.
Check functionality of avionics, (I still have no audio out on my garmin 396)
Confirm accuracy of sight gauge numbers by using dipstick, they might suggest that you have a little more fuel than you actually do.
Check cockpit light and gauge lights. and all external lights, including which switches turn them off and on and how they are labeled.
Check all switches and their labels.
Learn what kind of oil is installed and get a spare quart for servicing.
Test transponder functionality.
Test all weather / terrain displays and alerts video and audio.
Test if avionics should pass along comm and or nav frequencies.
Test to see if auto pilot can fly flight plan from other radio if this is an expected feature.
Check quality of composite and paint.
Check quality of windows.
Ask for samples of composiclean
Check heater
Check carb heat
....Roger H