Paperwork required to convert SLSA to ELSA

[RBearden56]

All,

OK I am taking the plunge to ELSA. I found a local DAR who can do the job. This is important because not all DARs can issue LSA airworthiness certificate. First you need a DAR-T with 157 and or 158 endorsement. When you go to the FAA web site and search DARs this is the information you will need.

I contacted the DAR and we exchanged pleasantries and got down to business. He told me that I will need a copy of the FAA Form 8130-15, Manufacture's Certificate of Conformity to the ASTM standard that the aircraft was built to. What? I have never seen this before, called the seller, no luck, called Cessna, dear in the headlight look over the phone, so back to the FAA.

You can get copies of all FAA records of your SLSA beginning with the 8130-15 form and application for airworthiness 8130-6. Do a N number search and the look for the link to the Registry and then records. Enter the N number and aircraft serial number. Then place the order in basket. The cost is 10 cents per page of S10 for a CD. They are pretty quick I got my package in 5 day.

Hope this helps clear some of the fog.

I will let you know of any other hick-ups along the way

Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM-A

[ShawnM]

That's a great disc to have as it contains all the documents ever created for your plane. Everyone should have one. Last year at Sun-n-Fun if you went into the FAA office there they were offering the disc for free. They asked me to fill out a small form with my name (in my case a LLC), aircraft serial number and N number and about a week later I received a CD in the mail. It has EVERY document ever created for my plane from the day she was born including the 8130-15.

Luckily my DAR actually worked for his fee and retrieved this document from the FAA for me. We first spoke on the phone and he asked me a number of questions and got all my aircraft info and my LLC info since my plane is registered in a LLC and not my name. He said give me some time to gather and prepare some documents and I'll call you when I'm ready. It took him about 2 weeks to get everything together and then he called me and said fly on up and you'll fly home in your new E-LSA SportCruiser. I had to prepare a new passenger warning and add the "experimental" placard in the cockpit area for the trip home. It was the best $400 I ever spent on my plane. The second best $400 I spent was on the LSR-I class to be able to do my own annual condition inspections.

Good luck with everything Randall.

[JimParker256]

That is part of my "pre-buy" process for every airplane I get serious about... I order the FAA document CD, and keep it on file with the airplane stuff. I also photocopy all the logs, and keep an electronic copy of that in the file as well.

I keep those, plus scanned or electronic copies of the following on a USB stick attached to my airplane's key:
* airworthiness certificate and operating limitations
* current weight and balance
* build manual (for experimental)
* parts manual (current)
* maintenance manuals (current version for airframe, engine, and prop
* avionics manuals (installation, user, and ICA)

If I ever need maintenance while away from home, I've got everything on hand that a shop could possibly need, other than the parts!

[ShawnM]

I do something very similar Jim. I have every parts, user and service manual along with all the Rotax manuals for my plane on my iPad mini and I always have it with me as my backup navigation if needed when I fly. If I'm at the hangar and need to look up something I have all the manuals with me. I do have my FAA docs backed up on my PC at home.

Paper is so 1990's.

[JimParker256]

Yep, I use a Mac at home, and iPhone / iPad away from home, so all my manuals, etc. are synched to all three devices within minutes of making a change to any of them. So nice to have the manuals available (even in "tiny" format) when you unexpectedly need to check something out. Especially since I live almost 40 minutes from my hangar...

[RBearden56]

Tomorrow is the day my Cessna is set free from the rusty cage it was placed in when the manufacture decided to quit production and abandoned the LSA fleet.
Yes ELSA ,
New list of things to improve:
1) Update the G300 software from 6.2 to 6.11
2) Go on a diet, remove the GTX 327 and GDL 82 - replace with a GTX335 Loose 3.5 lb.
3) Install Bendix King xCruise 100 Autopilot. No kits available from Cessna, had to buy all of the installation hardware from Cessna bit by costly bit.

Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM

[ShawnM]

Tomorrow is the day my Cessna is set free from the rusty cage it was placed in when the manufacture decided to quit production and abandoned the LSA fleet.
Yes ELSA ,
New list of things to improve:
1) Update the G300 software from 6.2 to 6.11
2) Go on a diet, remove the GTX 327 and GDL 82 - replace with a GTX335 Loose 3.5 lb.
3) Install Bendix King xCruise 100 Autopilot. No kits available from Cessna, had to buy all of the installation hardware from Cessna bit by costly bit.

Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM

It'll be the best thing you did for your E-LSA. Good luck with everything.

Um, isn't going from 6.2 to 6.11 a downgrade? Or is this the NEW MATH that everyone talks about? You didn't need to go E-LSA to do a software update.

[JJay]

Um, isn't going from 6.2 to 6.11 a downgrade? Or is this the NEW MATH that everyone talks about? You didn't need to go E-LSA to do a software update.

Shawn, 6.11 is 9 sub-releases after 6.2. Definite upgrade. But your point is correct. Don't wait for ELSA to do a software upgrade.

[RBearden56]

Here is the thing about the Cessna 162 Software. It is owned by Cessna, You have to go to a Cessna Service Center to get it unlocked and they are very picky about what they will do for you. For example, I installed the service bulletin for ADS-B out, and had to get the Cessna technican to unlock the config files to update the weight and balance information. The G300 unlock software is not available for the aircraft owner.
V6.2 was the last release when Cessna pulled the plug on the Skycatcher. After that Garmin didn't want to walk away from a good product so they renamed it the G3X and continued to make improvements, and currently they are at V6.11 and it is very good. Supports a lot of new items like ADS-B In traffic and weather on the MFD.
You can download the 6.11 software from Garmin for free. BUT there are several thing that they are not telling you that needs to be done by a Cessna Tech to load it correctly and not turn the system into a brick. You have to load certain versions in sequence as you go from 6.2 to 6.11. Calling Garmin won't help because they don't own that software and can't help. They can assist with the versions they own, after v6.2.
So the only solution, and this is not the only reason I went ELSA, was to take advantage of the the improved software. Another reason was the that Cessna had Tru Trak Auto pilot as an option for the Skycatcher. The don't offer the kit anymore but will sell you the all the bits and pieces needed that are listed in the Modification Kit bulletin, $3600 for the controller, $1500 for each servo, another $1000 on mounting brackets, hardware, and items needed for the installation. You can buy the very same hardware with an installation kit from Bendix King (they own Try Trak now) for $2100 Plus installation for an experimental, xCruze 100. Need a new radio, Cessna wants $2400 for a Garmin SL40. A Garmin GTR200 is $1100 and a much better radio, as an SLSA you can't change anything about the aircraft including avionics with out a LOA from Cessna (or the aircraft manufacturer) and they are not doing those at all, a waste of your time.

Anyway, I done it and am not looking back
Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM
N3037T

[ShawnM]

Um, isn't going from 6.2 to 6.11 a downgrade? Or is this the NEW MATH that everyone talks about? You didn't need to go E-LSA to do a software update.

Shawn, 6.11 is 9 sub-releases after 6.2. Definite upgrade. But your point is correct. Don't wait for ELSA to do a software upgrade.

If you say so but I count 6.11, 6.12, 6.13, 6.14, 6.15, 6.16, 6.17, 6.18, 6.19, 6.20. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years.

[JJay]

If you say so but I count 6.11, 6.12, 6.13, 6.14, 6.15, 6.16, 6.17, 6.18, 6.19, 6.20. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years.

Shawn, I didn't want to muck up the OP's real question with too much side-babble, but it's been awhile. I appreciate the humor, but just to help ease any confusion for folks not really into software version numbering: In a software version designation, 6.2 does not equal 6.20 or 6.200, or 6.2000. The "dot" does not represent a decimal, it represents a field separator. Major.Minor. Sometimes you'll see Major.Minor.Build or Major.Minor.Build.Revision. Each number is a separate field, not a fraction of the number before the dot. Minor version 20 is 18 changes past minor version 2, so 6.20 is much later than 6.2.

[Warmi]

If you say so but I count 6.11, 6.12, 6.13, 6.14, 6.15, 6.16, 6.17, 6.18, 6.19, 6.20. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years.

Shawn, I didn't want to muck up the OP's real question with too much side-babble, but it's been awhile. I appreciate the humor, but just to help ease any confusion for folks not really into software version numbering: In a software version designation, 6.2 does not equal 6.20 or 6.200, or 6.2000. The "dot" does not represent a decimal, it represents a field separator. Major.Minor. Sometimes you'll see Major.Minor.Build or Major.Minor.Build.Revision. Each number is a separate field, not a fraction of the number before the dot. Minor version 20 is 18 changes past minor version 2, so 6.20 is much later than 6.2.

That's why we label our releases 6.02 rather than 6.2

[ShawnM]

If you say so but I count 6.11, 6.12, 6.13, 6.14, 6.15, 6.16, 6.17, 6.18, 6.19, 6.20. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years.

Shawn, I didn't want to muck up the OP's real question with too much side-babble, but it's been awhile. I appreciate the humor, but just to help ease any confusion for folks not really into software version numbering: In a software version designation, 6.2 does not equal 6.20 or 6.200, or 6.2000. The "dot" does not represent a decimal, it represents a field separator. Major.Minor. Sometimes you'll see Major.Minor.Build or Major.Minor.Build.Revision. Each number is a separate field, not a fraction of the number before the dot. Minor version 20 is 18 changes past minor version 2, so 6.20 is much later than 6.2.

Thanks for the explanation but it still does not make any sense to me. I've been upgrading my Dynon firmware for the last 7 years. Maybe it's different for Cessna and their proprietary software for the G3X display. The Dynon firmware for the last 10 years has gone from:

5.1 in 2009
5.1.1
5.2
5.3
5.3.1
5.4
5.4.2
5.4.3
5.5.0
5.6.0
5.6.1 as of 2016.

This is why 6.11 comes BEFORE 6.2 in my book.

Again, thanks for the time to explain JJay, I'm still confused buy your math but it's all good.

[JimParker256]

Again, thanks for the time to explain JJay, I'm still confused buy your math but it's all good.

It sounds to me like Cessna used their own "versioning" on the software, and once they stopped making any upgrades, Garmin returned to using their standard release numbers. That's the only thing that makes sense to me in this situation, because ShawnM is 100% correct: 6.2 should come nine sub-releases BEFORE 6.11, unless it should actually have been labelled 6.20, in which case it came 9 sub-releases AFTER 6.11.

In years past, I actually worked with some software (from GE, no less) where someone in the chain of command did not understand the ramifications their weird version numbering would have on their customers and their support folks. They numbered their releases like this: 6.1, 6.1, 6.3 etc through 6.9, then came 6.10, 6.11, etc. The only problem was that their publishing system dropped the trailing zeros on 6.10 so it was published as 6.1 (again). Likewise, 6.20 became 6.2, and so forth. Talk about confusing! You had to actually look at the file size to determine whether you were looking at 6.1 or 6.10, because they were both labelled as V6.1... And, by the way, sometimes their "solution" to an issue we were having was to tell us to go back to a previous version of the software... So I've had the experience of both "upgrading" from V6.9 to V6.2, and "downgrading" from V6.2 to V6.8. It wasn't at all confusing... Argh!

I lobbied their tech support and developers for a solid year, and finally got them to change their versioning system to use two digits after the decimal point to remove the confusion...

[RBearden56]

IF you own a Cessna Skycatcher and go the ELSA route as I have there are options you may want. Updating the G300 software is one of mine but there are issues in doing this. I converted to ELSA on October 28, 2020 and just recently went to Garmin to get RMAs to get refurbished Primary Flight Display and Multi function display. Garmin went to the FAA web site and did a N number search. The data had not been updated due to Covid 19. I had to send a copy of the new airworthiness certificate, they are no longer pink and the flight restrictions are all on one sheet of paper. I got the refurbished units and one was at rev 12.00 and the other was at 6.20. The I request the software to unlock the older software, get the 8.0, needed to go to rev 12. They said until the web site showed me as Experimental no deal. That was not going to work for me.
The bottom line is that the airworthiness certificate is the source document for your aircraft not the FAA web site. There is a disclaimer on the site that states the information is not to be used for determining airworthiness or configuration of the aircraft.
After this and referencing the appropriate FARs they agreed and released the software to no so now I am forward with upgrades and learning the new features.

Randall Bearden
Skycatcher ELSA
Sport Polot
LSRM Aircraft