I will call tomorrow.
Contact Information
Larry L. Buchanan
Branch Manager AFS-610
Phone: (405) 954-6400
Fax: (405) 954-6688
Mailing Address:
U.S. Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
P.O. Box 25082
Oklahoma City, OK 73125
Physical Address:
U.S. Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
6500 S. MacArthur Boulevard
ARB, Room 304A
Oklahoma City, OK 73169
________
Ferrari f355 history
Moving from Sport to Private Pilot?
Moderator: drseti
180 on the rule
I received the same email from EAA. I also received this one from the FAA when I wrote to them. It looks like I am either wrong, or they haved changed their rules since I last looked into this. Either way, the short answer is "good to go" with a SP CFI for the Sport Pilot rating and that you can apply that time to a Private Pilot in the future, provided you then work with a CFI for the remaining required training.
As defined in 61.1(b)(ii), an authorized instructor is a person who holds a current flight instructor certificate issued under part 61(Subpart K Flight Instructors with a Sport Pilot Rating) and under 61.1(b)(7), defines Flight training as training other than ground training received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft. An aircraft must be type certificated and listed in one of the categories under 61.5(b)(1). So yes all training given by a Flight instructor with a Sport Pilot Rating is valid toward earning a higher certificate, along with the additional aeronautical experience necessary to acquire the certificate in question.
Flight training begins on the ground, not in the air.℠
2011 FAASTeam Representative of the Year, Great Lakes Region
http://www.SticknRudder.com
2011 FAASTeam Representative of the Year, Great Lakes Region
http://www.SticknRudder.com
Docwatson, as a simply suggestion (and I am very glad you are calling)... If the answer is SPI time counts towards PP, can you send whoever you talk to a confirmation email to the person you spoke with? I was very frustrated when this opinion changed because I didn't have it in writing. If Larry gives a different opinion, then I definitely want to lock that in. It would be a great service to everyone.
I think it is insane to have one instructor (an SPI) teach straight and level to a SP. Then the 400 hour SP has to get instruction from a CFI on straight level to upgrade to PP. Personally, I am a CFI but I have some SPIs working for me who are awesome pilots/instructors. They have better stick & rudder skills (and judgment skills) that a lot of CFIs I have seen.
Good luck!
I think it is insane to have one instructor (an SPI) teach straight and level to a SP. Then the 400 hour SP has to get instruction from a CFI on straight level to upgrade to PP. Personally, I am a CFI but I have some SPIs working for me who are awesome pilots/instructors. They have better stick & rudder skills (and judgment skills) that a lot of CFIs I have seen.
Good luck!
Boy am I ever looking forward to reading what Docwatson hears. We all do the best we can to answer questions, but the reality is that FAA is the final answer (I hope).
Get it in writing/email!
It also raises the ugly head of just how much mis-information is still out there. You begin to wonder how many certificates have been issued with a lick and a promise, and hope that some future "official review" won't turn things upside down.
I realize the Sport Pilot program, and Light Sport Aircraft program, have only been in effect since 9/04, but jeez - how does the student ever figure out "reality"?
Tom
Get it in writing/email!
It also raises the ugly head of just how much mis-information is still out there. You begin to wonder how many certificates have been issued with a lick and a promise, and hope that some future "official review" won't turn things upside down.
I realize the Sport Pilot program, and Light Sport Aircraft program, have only been in effect since 9/04, but jeez - how does the student ever figure out "reality"?
Tom
Sport to Private
Okay kids I called Oklahoma this morning and spoke with Robbie Whitesell. He stated to me this:
The hours you logged while being trained by a SP-CFI counts towards your private in his opinion. He believes it is totally up to the FAA-Examiner but feels it is unlikely the examiner would not allow the use of those hours. He stated that the only difference really is that the training you did as a Sport pilot was under Part. 61.311 where as Private Pilots are listed under part 61.107. But they are essentially one and the same. You are still completing much of the same tasks under either one. He said it really depends on how the endorsement was written in the back of your log book. However he said there is not much of an argument for an examiner to say "yes you did complete that task but it was written under 311 instead of 107 even though they are the SAME task.
So with that being said, it essentially does count since you have the same training. He asked me to email him the statement by the EAA but said in his opinion I am good to go.
Also Robbie said that they debate this all the time at the AFS-610 mainly because there was a law suit (to which he couldn't remember the specifics) that took place against the FAA with regards to going Private to Commercial in which the FAA lost. So legal in Washington has tried to make it more difficult to answer than it really is. But again he said the hours essentially count and he couldn't see an FAA examiner turning you away for it.
As he stated, the FAA examiner will essentially look at your log book and see that you have logged each maneuver and it was signed by the instructor.
Case closed?
Thanks and Fly home safely.
Bill C
________
Chrysler 300 non-letter series history
The hours you logged while being trained by a SP-CFI counts towards your private in his opinion. He believes it is totally up to the FAA-Examiner but feels it is unlikely the examiner would not allow the use of those hours. He stated that the only difference really is that the training you did as a Sport pilot was under Part. 61.311 where as Private Pilots are listed under part 61.107. But they are essentially one and the same. You are still completing much of the same tasks under either one. He said it really depends on how the endorsement was written in the back of your log book. However he said there is not much of an argument for an examiner to say "yes you did complete that task but it was written under 311 instead of 107 even though they are the SAME task.
So with that being said, it essentially does count since you have the same training. He asked me to email him the statement by the EAA but said in his opinion I am good to go.
Also Robbie said that they debate this all the time at the AFS-610 mainly because there was a law suit (to which he couldn't remember the specifics) that took place against the FAA with regards to going Private to Commercial in which the FAA lost. So legal in Washington has tried to make it more difficult to answer than it really is. But again he said the hours essentially count and he couldn't see an FAA examiner turning you away for it.
As he stated, the FAA examiner will essentially look at your log book and see that you have logged each maneuver and it was signed by the instructor.
Case closed?
Thanks and Fly home safely.
Bill C
________
Chrysler 300 non-letter series history
Last edited by Docwatson on Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is the email he sent to me after we discussed it.
Bill,
I'll let the regulation speak for itself.
It is the pilot examiner's responsibility to determine an applicant's eligibility to take a practical test. If eligible, the examiner then evaluates whether or not the applicant meets the Practical Test Standards for that test.
Robbie Whitesell
Light Sport Aviation Branch, AFS-610
405-954-7591
________
Michigan marijuana dispensary
Bill,
I'll let the regulation speak for itself.
It is the pilot examiner's responsibility to determine an applicant's eligibility to take a practical test. If eligible, the examiner then evaluates whether or not the applicant meets the Practical Test Standards for that test.
Robbie Whitesell
Light Sport Aviation Branch, AFS-610
405-954-7591
________
Michigan marijuana dispensary
Last edited by Docwatson on Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I really *want* to believe the case is closed. But the frequent use of "essentially" and reference to "the examiner determines success in the practical" sure leave some wiggle room in the interpretation of the regs.
Anyway, thanks for contacting AFS. And good luck students - wherever you are!
Thanks.
Tom
Anyway, thanks for contacting AFS. And good luck students - wherever you are!
Thanks.
Tom
Well case is closed as to where they stand on it. I didn't say it was crystal clear. I just said that is the stance. I will go ahead and start the training and see what happens.CTflyer wrote:Well, I really *want* to believe the case is closed. But the frequent use of "essentially" and reference to "the examiner determines success in the practical" sure leave some wiggle room in the interpretation of the regs.
Anyway, thanks for contacting AFS. And good luck students - wherever you are!
Thanks.
Tom
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Honda cbr600f history
Last edited by Docwatson on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.