Well, in a steady state climb, are you not at 1g?
I would think that only if you were accelerating upwards - i.e. increasing your rate of climb - that there would be any effect on stall speed.
Right?
And I'm wondering if turning flight would not, in theory, have some small effect on Vy.
Reasoning? Turning flight maks the plane "heavier", and I thought weight affected Vy.
Went to Google for confirmation and found this:
"Generally, an increase in weight will reduce the maximum rate of climb but the airplane must be operated at some increase of climb speed to achieve the smaller peak climb rate."
Source: http://avstop.com/ac/flighttrainghandbo ... mance.html
That said, I think the difference in speed would be negligible for any reasonable bank angle in the climb, and could likely be ignored. I, for one, have never adjusted for it, though of course I adjust for gradually decreasing Vy with altitude.
Anyway, good question!
Max Climb & Turn
Moderator: drseti
- FastEddieB
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: Max Climb & Turn
Yes, of course, a bank increases load factor and stall speed, and decreases rate of climb. But I don't think the speed at which max climb occurs will change, just the rate of that climb.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
- FastEddieB
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: Max Climb & Turn
What do you think of: "...must be operated at some increase of climb speed to achieve the smaller peak climb rate." (italics mine)drseti wrote:Yes, of course, a bank increases load factor and stall speed, and decreases rate of climb. But I don't think the speed at which max climb occurs will change, just the rate of that climb.
Time to dig out Aerodynamics For Naval Aviators?
Re: Max Climb & Turn
I'm going to do some climb and turning climb tests in terms of performance.
Will post results.
Will post results.
Re: Max Climb & Turn
......
Last edited by CTLSi on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Re: Max Climb & Turn
You cannot defend the indefensible. A centered ball does not provide stall protection, stall protection comes from maintaining a non-critical angle of attack.CTLSi wrote:As long as the ball is centered both lift and turn are stable. In pattern turns, ball center is even more critical considering how slow and low the plane has to be...drseti wrote:No, that's not right. As long as the ball is centered, you are coordinated; you won't spin. Certainly you can stall. You stall every time you land properly (hopefully, with the ball centered). And you practice stalls all the time, with the ball centered!CTLSi wrote:As long as the ball is centered you are coordinated you won't stall.
On climb=out ascent or base to final turn decent if the ball is not centered the high wing may stall before the lower wing at speeds above stall speed, for example.
As a rule of thumb, having the ball centered eliminates the above surprise, and leaves just the task of making sure to keep the speed above stall speed. In other words, cllimb-out at Vy and not Vx.
Here is an article on uncoordinated stalls: http://apstraining.com/blog/2009/10/12/ ... rn-stalls/
The high wing isn't more prone to stall then the low wing if the ball isn't centered, don't you think it matters which way the ball is off?
Climbing at Vy vs Vx is a matter of objective, best rate or best angle with Vy having more margin until it meets Vx.
Huh?As long as the ball is centered both lift and turn are stable.
Re: Max Climb & Turn
Good point to Vy when turning for extra safety margin unless Vx is absolutely required.CharlieTango wrote:Climbing at Vy vs Vx is a matter of objective, best rate or best angle with Vy having more margin until it meets Vx.
-
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm
Re: Max Climb & Turn
.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Max Climb & Turn
So, does that mean that if the tree isn't a simulated one, you don't have to use Vx?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
-
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm
Re: Max Climb & Turn
.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Max Climb & Turn
And that is the right attitude!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
- FastEddieB
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: Max Climb & Turn
I thought we were supposed to keep politics out of this!drseti wrote:And that is the right attitude!
Re: Max Climb & Turn
When it comes to aviation safety, Eddie, even liberals embrace a conservative philosophy.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
-
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm
Re: Max Climb & Turn
.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Max Climb & Turn
BTW -- Load Factor actually decreases in a stabilized climb although it is a somewhat trivial amount since it is related to the sin() of the angle (while Load Factor is related to the Cos() of a bank). A 10 degree climb will only reduce stall by around 2% (10 degrees equals around 60 kts Vx/Vy and 1000 fpm climb).
So for all practical purposes one can assume Load Factor is constant for climb in a light plane.
So for all practical purposes one can assume Load Factor is constant for climb in a light plane.
dave