Sport Pilot Talk

I'm from DFW and I own a motorcycle shop here. I come from a family of pilots with my uncle who flew in the air force and now is a pilot for American, a grandfather who was a pilot and plane owner, a.brother who is a private pilot and my dad who flew when he was younger. My brother has got me interested in flying and I want to check my options and see if a sport license will suit my needs. So hi everyone and hope I can learn alot here.

Hi MW, greetings back from Jacksonville, and welcome to this forum.

There is indeed a lot of info floating around out there about this new, interesting and - for economic reasons - so far almost stillborn side to General Aviation.

If your interest is in local or nearby flying, only during the daytime and in settled weather, then that itch can be nicely scratched by a SP license. In your large metro area you should be able to find a flight school with LSA aircraft (the recently introduced new 'class' of a/c created to match the SP qualifications) and usually a school will offer an 'intro' flight that's more affordable than the regular instructional flights.

If you think you want to begin flight training, I think you'll find most pilots agree with the statement that picking the right flight instructor is the single most important step in that process. More important than the kind of plane you'll be flying, or how big/small or distant/close the airport is. A lot can be said about how to do that, once you get to that point.

Good luck to you,

Jack Tyler wrote:Hi MW, greetings back from Jacksonville, and welcome to this forum.

There is indeed a lot of info floating around out there about this new, interesting and - for economic reasons - so far almost stillborn side to General Aviation.

If your interest is in local or nearby flying, only during the daytime and in settled weather, then that itch can be nicely scratched by a SP license. In your large metro area you should be able to find a flight school with LSA aircraft (the recently introduced new 'class' of a/c created to match the SP qualifications) and usually a school will offer an 'intro' flight that's more affordable than the regular instructional flights.

If you think you want to begin flight training, I think you'll find most pilots agree with the statement that picking the right flight instructor is the single most important step in that process. More important than the kind of plane you'll be flying, or how big/small or distant/close the airport is. A lot can be said about how to do that, once you get to that point.

Good luck to you,

Thanks for the info.

Ive been doing quite a bit of research on what type of license to get. I dont plan on flying at night or in bad weather regardless of what way i go. I like the lower cost of obtaining the SP license but the only thing that is hanging me up right now is that ive heard that its harder to learn in a LSA as opposed to say a Cessna 172 which is what i go flying in with my brother and the fact that not all the airports around have LSA a/c for rent and the ones that do i see the price ranges from $90-$120 an hour. I really wish the 152 met the requirements of LSA since i could save quite a bit of money renting one of those over an LSA a/c.

Also im doing research into whether or not i would be able to pass a physical for the PP since i am an amputee. My right leg was amputated below the knee but i dont think that would be a problem.

Heya Wrench! Greets from a fellow DFWer/LSA student....

From what I've read you are going to be in "SODA" (statement of demonstrated ability) territory due to the leg. I don't know if it's a big deal or not, and I don't know if sport pilot is any easier, but there's a way forward whether you want to go SP or PP.

ive heard that its harder to learn in a LSA

Probably true, but.

I've flown a 172 and I've flown (admittedly only one) LSA, and there isn't a huge difference in terms of easy or hard. However, "learning" involves more than how hard the plane is to fly. There are fewer LSA planes out there and they can have tighter operating limits. That means more lessons cancelled. That said...personally I think the Remos G3 I'm flying now is more fun than the 172 I flew.



What's your shop's specialty?

Jon V wrote:Heya Wrench! Greets from a fellow DFWer/LSA student....

From what I've read you are going to be in "SODA" (statement of demonstrated ability) territory due to the leg. I don't know if it's a big deal or not, and I don't know if sport pilot is any easier, but there's a way forward whether you want to go SP or PP.

ive heard that its harder to learn in a LSA

Probably true, but.

I've flown a 172 and I've flown (admittedly only one) LSA, and there isn't a huge difference in terms of easy or hard. However, "learning" involves more than how hard the plane is to fly. There are fewer LSA planes out there and they can have tighter operating limits. That means more lessons cancelled. That said...personally I think the Remos G3 I'm flying now is more fun than the 172 I flew.



What's your shop's specialty?

I know there are people with "disabilitys (i hate that word. Just cause i dont have a limb doesnt mean im disabled...) that fly. I have the number to the International Wheelchair Aviators, just havent called them yet.

The reason ive heard that its harder to fly LSA is with the smaller dimensions, weight, and power VS a larger aircraft can make it difficult to land when its windy. Basically the wind effects you more in a smaller plane. I have no doubt it would be funner to fly LSA due to them, for the most part, being faster, and more manueverable.

My shop does it all. We service everything from Harleys to Sportbikes and i like to build custom metric bikes also. I have two customs in right now im building, both yamahas but going in entirely different directions with them. One is a bobber and the other is what i like to call Gangstered out. Thats basically wraparound fenders, big spoke wheels, custom front end, whitewall tires, etc. Sorry if i ramble on. Motorcycles are my first passion and i consider myself to be lucky to own my own shop so young(29).

Monkey wrench wrote: I know there are people with "disabilitys (i hate that word. Just cause i dont have a limb doesnt mean im disabled...) that fly. I have the number to the International Wheelchair Aviators, just havent called them yet.

Yep. I do somewhat wonder if the SODA process is needed with SP, or if that's just for PP and above. After all, you have a license to drive, and you are willing to self-certify that you are safe to fly, so logically it should meet the SP requirements. In practice I wonder how many people have tested it....

Monkey wrench wrote: The reason ive heard that its harder to fly LSA is with the smaller dimensions, weight, and power VS a larger aircraft can make it difficult to land when its windy. Basically the wind effects you more in a smaller plane. I have no doubt it would be funner to fly LSA due to them, for the most part, being faster, and more manueverable.

You probably won't fly on some days where a 172 could. E.g. the Remos G3 I've been flying has a max takeoff headwind of 25kts, and a max crosswind of 15kts. Guess what the wind speeds were almost every time I had a lesson scheduled from April through June? Sigh.... anyway, on calm days they fly different but I couldn't honestly say that one was easier than the other. Most LSAs have a better power to weight ratio (so they climb better) than older 15x/17x Cessnas.

LSAs tend to be more basic stick+rudder planes. Fewer instruments, simpler systems, etc. That means fewer distractions early on and more of a tendency to fly "outside the cockpit". That should make them better for the first 10-15 hours of training, all else being equal.

Monkey wrench wrote: My shop does it all. We service everything from Harleys to Sportbikes and i like to build custom metric bikes also. I have two customs in right now im building, both yamahas but going in entirely different directions with them. One is a bobber and the other is what i like to call Gangstered out. Thats basically wraparound fenders, big spoke wheels, custom front end, whitewall tires, etc. Sorry if i ramble on. Motorcycles are my first passion and i consider myself to be lucky to own my own shop so young(29).

Nice! Bobbers are cool. Right now I have a skuzuki DL650 as my all-around bike. I may need to look you up next time I need some tweaking done. How are you on front suspensions?

Monkey wrench wrote:ive heard that its harder to learn in a LSA as opposed to say a Cessna 172

Welcome to the boards, Wrench. Happy to have you among us.

Learning to fly an LSA is "harder" than learning in a heavier aircraft, to the extent that learning to drive a stick shift is more difficult than learning in an automatic transmission. I am one who believes that if you learn to drive in a stick, you can drive anything (but the opposite isn't true). Similarly, if you learn to fly in an LSA (or other aircraft with extremely light wing loading), you can then transition to flying just about anything -- but transitioning in the opposite direction is quite challenging, because you can be pretty sloppy in heavier aircraft and they will compensate for you. With an LSA, you have to keep flying it until it's back in the chocks. Harder? Perhaps harder to learn, but that will only make you a better (and safer) pilot.

Monkey wrench wrote:I know there are people with "disabilities (i hate that word. Just cause i dont have a limb doesnt mean im disabled...)

Wrench, in another life, I'm quite involved in advocacy with the special needs community. "People centered" language is considered politically correct these days, and not at all demeaning. So, someone can be a "person with a disability," as distinctly different from a "disabled person"! In any case, I see no reason at all why you can't safely pilot an LSA, as long as you are able to drive (and, presumably, drive motorcycles).

Motorcycles are my first passion and i consider myself to be lucky to own my own shop so young(29).

There's a great deal of crossover between biking and LSA flying. Those of my students who are experienced bikers seem to learn the basic flying skills more easily than those who aren't. Banking 30 degrees to turn should come naturally to you.

I have a hangar in California, and one in Pennsylvania -- and keep a motorcycle in each (plus another at home). A perfect day involves biking to an airport to go fly a plane!

Monkey wrench wrote:My right leg was amputated below the knee but i dont think that would be a problem.

It's entirely possible to modify aircraft for hand rudder controls, though in the case of an S-LSA you'll need a Letter of Authorization from the manufacturer for any modifications. However, if you have an effective prosthetic that allows you to operate an auto gas pedal, you can probably learn to use the rudder pedals as well. Bear in mind that you will probably find toe brakes difficult to operate, so you should look for an LSA that uses a hand brake (take a look at the Flight Design CT, for example). You will probably want to avoid those LSAs with castering nosewheels (such as the Gobosh and PiperSport), as those require differential braking to steer on the ground. Try to get demo rides in a few different LSAs before you commit to a particular training program, to find out what works best for you.

I had a student last year who had some minor limitations from having had polio as a youngster. He was a good student, and will be a great pilot, but had trouble operating the toe brakes in my SportStar. I hated to lose him, but ended up referring him to another flight school that had a CT. Turns out that was a much better fit for him.

Wrench, I encourage you to read each of Paul's posts carefully. He's one of the truly experienced folks here, and I think his info and analogies are spot-on in your case. I also think you have a sound fix on the basic nature of flying an LSA, as well as on the challenge of finding many instructional choices and a/c rental options, given that relatively few LSA a/c have been sold each of the last 6+ years. If there's only one FBO/flight school near you that offers LSA-based instruction, that means you don't have a lot of choices in who will be your instructor, how suitable that airport is for training, and perhaps the nature of the a/c in which you'll be training.

In your circumstances, I'd make a decision on which license to go for after researching if my SP/LSA options, for where I lived, are suitable enough to be acceptable.

Wrench, I know a WW2 vet who lost his leg after the war in a RR accident. It was above the knee. He had a commercial pilot certificate limited to tricycle gear aircraft only. He flew tail draggers as a private pilot as well. I know an other fellow who had polio. He wore leg braces. He was a private pilot limited to aircraft with a hand brake. Then if you search there is a girl with no arms who got her sport pilot a few years ago. I think you could do either one with no problem. Tom