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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago
Hi Guys,

I have be checking out the LSA market and I was wondering what is the LSA (S-LSA or E-LSA) with the highest useful load. So far, the best I have seen was the JustAircraft Highlander, with a 700 lbs useful load. I understand that these aircraft are under the 1320/1430 Gross limit. Thanks guys.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:40 pm
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I don't know anything about JustPlanes, but you should be aware that these are kit planes - you get to build them yourself. I'm building a Zenith, so I'm good with that, but many people expect a plane to come ready to fly. The Highlander is also a taildragger.

One of the higher useful load LSA's that I've seen (and fly) is the Tecnam Echo Super (P92) at 605 lbs. It also has a relatively large interior.

Ron


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:22 pm 
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Location: Chicago
I spoke with the folks at Justaircraft about the Highlander. They told me that I could get it in kit form or receive it completely built from them as an S-LSA, however there would be about a 4-6 month wait for a completed aircraft. Interestingly enough, 4 other manufacturers have given me the same 4-6 month wait period estimate for an S-LSA.

Right now, the only other S-LSA I have seen with a useful load close to that has been the BushCaddy Explorer with a 640 lb useful load. The thing I like most about the Bushcaddy is that it is all metal, as opposed to tube and fabric.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:14 pm 
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I didn't see any pricing info for the SLSA. Out of curriosity, what do they want for the completed plan, and what does that include. Maybe there web site is IE only, but I couldn't find much info there using my Mac.

Even 640lb is an incredible useful, I'm guessing that the plane must be pretty basic? I don't know what your interest in high useful load is, but be sure to look at cargo space also, it varies a lot in both volume an shape in LSAs.

Ron


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:08 pm
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Location: Eagan (Twin Cities) MN, USA (KLVN)
LSA can be very limited in "usefull" load. Be sure you are comparing Apples and Apples in your aircraft. Does it have a Radio installed? Glass Cockpit? Full tanks of gas? Do you need to carry 34 gallons of gas? BRS? What is the baggage compartment rated to hold? One that trips many people up is the "seat" load. What is the maximum weight a seat is rated to? 265# can be filled quickly by a regular sized guy.

Is it a kit airplane or factory built?

All airplanes are not created equal.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:35 pm 
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Location: Chicago
The S-LSA completely built price I was quoted for the JustAircraft Highlander was about $85K. The kit alone (no engine/avionics) was about $25K. One thing I am noticing that is interesting is that for many of these LSAs that can be purchased in kit or prebuilt form, the labor cost for a prebuilt breaks down to being about $40-$50K extra.

I am looking for a aircraft with a high useful load because I am a big guy (or as I like to call it, Chicago sized :D ) and I would like to be able to carry myself and another buddy of mine to some nice fishing and camping spots in Michigan and Wisconson. So, basically, I'm looking at 450 lbs for pilot and passenger + fuel. I can do both easily in the bushcaddy and the highlander as long as the W & B works out.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:43 pm
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Location: Camarillo, CA
The factory built base model Remos G-3 SLSA has a 695 pound useful load. When equipped with a Dynon D100 EFIS and D120 EMS, a Dynon HS-34 Expansion Module, two Garmin Comm/Nav radios with audio panel, a transponder, a Garmin 496 GPS, a Digiflight II VS autopilot and a recovery parachute it has a remaining useful load of around 640-645 pounds. Subtract 132 pounds for full fuel and you still have a payload of about 510 pounds for occupants and stuff.


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 Post subject: LSA useful load
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 5
Location: West Palm Beach
Hi mcjon77, I found this new LSA and build an all metal airplane.
Visit their site at www.ParadiseAircraft.us

Hope that helps,

CR


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 Post subject: Paradise usefull load?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Location: Eagan (Twin Cities) MN, USA (KLVN)
It looks like an interesting airplane. Note that the in the US it is limited to 1,320 max weight under S-LSA regulations. It does not matter what Brazil allows, unless you live and fly only in Brazil. Flying over gross will get you a ticket, or your insurance policy canceled. It is not worth the chance.

It is listed as empty weight of 815 pounds. Sans fancy electronics, no BRS, plus gas...etc. That gives us 505 pounds to divide between two "Chicago sized" pilots, baggage, radios, and gas for the Paradise.

If the pilots weigh in at 225 each, (450) how far will 55 pounds go for gas, gear, and radios? 10 gallons of gas (at 6 pounds each is 60 pounds) will give less than 2 hours of total flight time, with no reserves, no radios, and no baggage. Am I missing something in my math?

Also, at only 43 inches wide, a larger size American guy and a pal will be tight. I am not trying to be negative here, but I do not see the value yet for this application. I would keep shopping.

In the interest of full disclosure: I sell the Flight Design CT in Minnesota.

The CT has a 49-inch cabin width; empty weight under 720 gives us 600 pounds to work with for gas, gear, and pilots. That extra 105 pounds of "legal" carrying capacity comes in handy. :-)

In addition, the CT has over 22% of the existing market share in a field of more than 30 manufacturers and over 1,000 worldwide (240+ in the USA) delivered. Plus a nationwide network of dealers to help with parts and repairs if ever needed, along the route.

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http://www.SticknRudder.com


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:02 am 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:30 am
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Location: Odenton, Md
scottj wrote:
In the interest of full disclosure: I sell the Flight Design CT in Minnesota.

The CT has a 49-inch cabin width; empty weight under 720 gives us 600 pounds to work with for gas, gear, and pilots.

Plus a nationwide network of dealers to help with parts and repairs if ever needed, along the route.


In the interest of full disclosure, my CTsw weighs in at 771 pounds and requires and additional 20 pounds of ballast if I want to run with full fuel.

As for the dealer network, I have been trying to get the initial delivery problems since the 2nd week in February. The dealer is swamped and appoints take 1 to 3 weeks, and if the weather is not flyable you cancel and get the next appointment in 1 to 3 weeks. My next scheduled appointment is March 24.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:41 am 
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Cessna used to have W/B sheets which showed the weight of every option down to paint and towbar. 25+ lbs of paint on the 206.

Piper had some that even showed the window curtain weight on the Aztec.

Could FD upgrade their website to show the airplane standard empty weight and then each option?

Bare airplane with only required equipment for flight. The Cessna WB sheet started with a bare aluminum no paint airplane.

Most LSA manufactures could do this because weight is such an issue with SP airplanes.

Then if someone was ordering new or looking to buy a used LSA they could add up the option list on that particular airplane to get a good idea of empty weight.

This would work on LSA because all options have to be factory approved. No STC or field approvals.

Guaranteed weight on delivery could be a selling point.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
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Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
artp wrote:
...my CTsw weighs in at 771 pounds and requires and additional 20 pounds of ballast if I want to run with full fuel...


when you have full fuel ( 6-7 hours ) the 20lbs could almost always be luggage.

i will agree flight design should be more honest about current empty weight. i will also say that carbon fiber varies in weight and especially with the shortage of cf more weight is realized.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:11 am 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:30 am
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Location: Odenton, Md
CharlieTango wrote:
artp wrote:
when you have full fuel ( 6-7 hours ) the 20lbs could almost always be luggage.


Except as luggage it would have to be 30 pounds. I attached my ballast to the rear of the cargo area with an arm of 53" the baggage arm is 43".


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
art,

so what? the point remains, if you have 6+hours of fuel a little luggage is the norm. you go out of your way to point this out as a big negative where in the real world it is no big deal.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Location: Odenton, Md
CharlieTango wrote:
art,

so what? the point remains, if you have 6+hours of fuel a little luggage is the norm. you go out of your way to point this out as a big negative where in the real world it is no big deal.


Whether it is a big deal or not is up to each user. I am only supplying the information. You seem to think that because it is not a big deal to you, it souldn't be to anyone else, and the mention of it is being negative.


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