Sport Pilot Talk

kaputt16 wrote:Appreciate all of the responses. For reference the aircraft is a Sling2.

I will reach out to the school management here soon with the G3X guide and see what they say!

When topped off, the Sling 2, will only display 16 gallons a side, not 19 gallons. This is due to the dihedral and placement of the gauge/ sensor in the tank.

Of all the aircraft I’ve owned or flown, my Sling is the hardest in determining remaining fuel in the tank. Full is full and if when you open the cap, you observe fuel awash the bottom, you should have 10 gallons left in the tank. In between that is anyone’s guess.

Although not being as helpful to a renter vs an owner, Garmin’s last G3X data release, added a fuel calibrate function. No longer does one have to go to Configuration mode to calibrate the gauge. For me, its been a work in progress. It’s suppose to help one fine tune your fuel flow use. To date, after several fills, I appear to show 1 to 3 gallons off, in that, I have more fuel in the tanks, than what I show as used. I’m hoping it stabilizes with the next fill up or two.

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:When topped off, the Sling 2, will only display 16 gallons a side, not 19 gallons. This is due to the dihedral and placement of the gauge/ sensor in the tank.

That's similar to the issue I have with the Zodiac. My gauges show 15 gallons (full) for the first three or four gallons used on each side. My fuel flow gauge is pretty accurate, so keeping track of the flow and switching tanks every 30 minutes, when I land and refuel I know within a gallon in each tank how much it'll take to top it off.

Scooper wrote:

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:When topped off, the Sling 2, will only display 16 gallons a side, not 19 gallons. This is due to the dihedral and placement of the gauge/ sensor in the tank.

That's similar to the issue I have with the Zodiac. My gauges show 15 gallons (full) for the first three or four gallons used on each side. My fuel flow gauge is pretty accurate, so keeping track of the flow and switching tanks every 30 minutes, when I land and refuel I know within a gallon in each tank how much it'll take to top it off.

And very similar to the SportCruiser with the very same dihedral. After a top off of 15 gallons a side the gauges don't move for the first few gallons. When I add fuel the Dynon EMS knows this and automatically asks me how much fuel I just added, I simply punch in the number of gallons I just added. Thankfully the fuel flow computer always knows how much fuel I have and how much I burned. I, like Stan, have my Garmin GPS remind me every 30 minutes to switch tanks. The fuel flow computer in the Dynon EMS It's very accurate but the sensor in the tanks is another story.

I find my tank sensor to be very accurate and I suspect it is due to the way fuel system is design in Sting planes - the main 20 gallons tank is located centrally in the fuselage.

I’m just disturbed that you even consider the fuel gauges in flight. There is a reason manufacturers technical specs show fuel burn in gallons per hour. I have never depended on a fuel Guage in an aircraft. My first instructor told me to never use the fuel gauges and I never have. I fill the tanks and track available fuel by time and the manufacturers burn rate charts.

If it is part of the MEL, how can it pass the next 100 hour inspection? Might want to mention that to the owner of the aircraft. Get it on the schedule now, because if you wait until it fails the 100 hour it could be a lot of extra time just waiting to get on the list, let alone the time for the actual repair. That POV might be motivating for the school to do something.

BTW - I never trust the gauges. I always use the fuel stick, and calculate how much fuel burn I will have the the trip / X amount of planned flying and know based on the clock when I might approach the reserve limit.

And.... make sure it has a big "INOP" sticker on it. That's 1) what has to happen per regulations, and 2) would be a big flag (no pun intended) to the school and owner that something is broken.

theoarno wrote:I’m just disturbed that you even consider the fuel gauges in flight. There is a reason manufacturers technical specs show fuel burn in gallons per hour. I have never depended on a fuel Guage in an aircraft. My first instructor told me to never use the fuel gauges and I never have. I fill the tanks and track available fuel by time and the manufacturers burn rate charts.

Do you look at your airspeed instrument ? Altimeter ? Why bother ? They can fail just as easily as your fuel gauge ...

theoarno wrote:I’m just disturbed that you even consider the fuel gauges in flight. There is a reason manufacturers technical specs show fuel burn in gallons per hour. I have never depended on a fuel Guage in an aircraft. My first instructor told me to never use the fuel gauges and I never have. I fill the tanks and track available fuel by time and the manufacturers burn rate charts.

I like to consider all available information in flight. If my gauge starts to read near zero before it should you can bet I am going to check it out regardless of my calculations. The manufactures calculations don't take into account any other circumstances besides a normally operation airplane. I had a Piper Warrior that had a situation where it used 50% more fuel than what the book said it should. The pilot landed and the engine quit on the runway due to fuel exhaustion. So yes do your calculations, but also consider the fuel gauge as well.

As pilot in command if you’re not happy with the airworthiness of the aircraft then don’t accept it. Period.
It’s your license, your money and your ass.

If the owner doesn’t care then see how much he cares about owning an expensive metal paperweight on his ramp that nobody rents.
In fact, if the school cares that little about you, the customer, your safety,or the maintenance of their airplanes, find another school.

I’m disappointed that the CFIs you spoke with condone flying this airplane. Being associated with a school that gets the FAA sniffing around for safety reasons can be a resume buster.

If you’re really concerned called the local FSDO and ask them what they think you should do? Talk to them in confidence and explain your concerns about safety and the potential for an accident.

If you still haven’t decided whether to fly it...
Imagine sitting in with the same FAA trying to explain your decision making when you conducted your flight or worse, had an accident, in the airplane.

I found a legal precedent from over 20 years ago, that you should share with your FBO:

https://pilot-protection-services.aopa. ... -attention

drseti wrote:I found a legal precedent from over 20 years ago, that you should share with your FBO:
https://pilot-protection-services.aopa. ... -attention

Good leg work, Paul.
FAR 91.205: "Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank." Period.
Without that, the aircraft is not airworthy, unless there is a corresponding MEL (minimum equipment list), which specifies alternate operating procedures with an associated time limit (for the inoperative equipment).
Without legal MEL relief, any pilot in command who chooses to operate such aircraft is in violation. That could be grounds for being cited for careless and/or reckless operation, by the PIC and FBO.

I have to admit I've developed a fondness for the sight tubes in my CTSW. As long as physics keeps working, they never lie* ! They are the only fuel management device in my airplane, and I've gotten very good at interpreting them to within a gallon or so.

* This statement only remains true in coordinated flight. User experience may differ.

MrMorden wrote:I have to admit I've developed a fondness for the sight tubes in my CTSW. As long as physics keeps working, they never lie* ! They are the only fuel management device in my airplane, and I've gotten very good at interpreting them to within a gallon or so.

* This statement only remains true in coordinated flight. User experience may differ.

I'll bet you can't look at them and tell me when you have 25 gallons remaining.

3Dreaming wrote:

MrMorden wrote:I have to admit I've developed a fondness for the sight tubes in my CTSW. As long as physics keeps working, they never lie* ! They are the only fuel management device in my airplane, and I've gotten very good at interpreting them to within a gallon or so.

* This statement only remains true in coordinated flight. User experience may differ.

I'll bet you can't look at them and tell me when you have 25 gallons remaining.

No, but if I have five hours flight time remaining, the question is not exactly critical.

MrMorden wrote:

3Dreaming wrote:

MrMorden wrote:I have to admit I've developed a fondness for the sight tubes in my CTSW. As long as physics keeps working, they never lie* ! They are the only fuel management device in my airplane, and I've gotten very good at interpreting them to within a gallon or so.

* This statement only remains true in coordinated flight. User experience may differ.

I'll bet you can't look at them and tell me when you have 25 gallons remaining.

No, but if I have five hours flight time remaining, the question is not exactly critical.

Yeah, but they can still show full when you have used more than a 1/3 of your fuel.