There was an interesting commentary in Aviation Consumer recently about the purpose of the LSA category. It states, which I long believed and felt, that the LSA manufacturers are ignoring a niche. That niche being the group of pilots that would use the aircraft for personal transportation in the 300NM range.
I personally fit into that category. I don't think $500k ($200+/hour loaded cost) GA aircraft provide me any more utility than a well equipped LSA, and have been waiting patiently for the evolution. The article mentions IFR, specifically light IFR. I would probably be one to use LSA in easy IFR conditions (no convection, no icing - duh, 500'+ ceilings, light rain etc.) if possible.
IFR in LSA is possible by appropriately rated pilots (PP+ w/IFR) if the aircraft manufacturer or any component manufacturer does not prohibit it and it is so equipped. Unfortunately, most of the LSA which would make good light-IFR cross-country platforms prohibit this type of flight.
This brings me to a discussion and poll. What is your interest in LSA, or why did you buy an LSA? Is it because your medical expired but wanted to keep flying? Is it because it's more affordable than new GA aircraft? Is it for cross-country flying? Would you fly it in IFR if you were so rated and the aircraft was so approved?
I came up with some answers for the poll, and I'm assuming that if you can justify a GA aircraft and you can or have a medical than you would go for that. So in the case of a PP+ rating, your choice of an LSA is because of cost (either initial, or recurring.) If you have a GA aircraft and bought an LSA for recreation only, than the choice is obvious.
LSA Purpose/Commentary
Moderator: drseti
Hi pilotjohn;
Back in 74 i got my private ticket VFR and accumulated 160 hrs before I stopped flying due to life changes.
in 92 I had a single blockage and reqiured an angeoplasty. In 2003 prior to the inception of the light stort pilot rule I was checking into what I needed to do to get my medical back. Due to the many hoops and cost to accomplish this task I decided to forget about it and started checking into the part 103 aircraft. I was still in the investigative mode when the LSA rules came out. I was happy to hear that no medical was needed to fly an LSA.
like other pilots I was highly movitated by the hipe of the Cost of the LSA being the Price of a premium priced car. And as we all know the prices were much higher and this disappointed many. Can I afford to own a SLSA? Yes. But, for Pleasure flying and an occassional cross country I couldent justify owning one. All I wanted to do was leave the confines of the earths surface for a hour of so a few times a week.
Last october I Purchased a ELSA Registered and airworthy certified Quad city Challenger 2 clip wing for Under 18K and have accumulated 40+ hrs on her to date. I have done a few 200 mile cross countries with club members and I enjoyed every minute I am in the air.
My little aircraft is not IFR equiped, I am not IFR rated and It cost much less then a New SLSA and far less in operational expenses and a ball to fly. She fits my needs just perfect.
Back in 74 i got my private ticket VFR and accumulated 160 hrs before I stopped flying due to life changes.
in 92 I had a single blockage and reqiured an angeoplasty. In 2003 prior to the inception of the light stort pilot rule I was checking into what I needed to do to get my medical back. Due to the many hoops and cost to accomplish this task I decided to forget about it and started checking into the part 103 aircraft. I was still in the investigative mode when the LSA rules came out. I was happy to hear that no medical was needed to fly an LSA.
like other pilots I was highly movitated by the hipe of the Cost of the LSA being the Price of a premium priced car. And as we all know the prices were much higher and this disappointed many. Can I afford to own a SLSA? Yes. But, for Pleasure flying and an occassional cross country I couldent justify owning one. All I wanted to do was leave the confines of the earths surface for a hour of so a few times a week.
Last october I Purchased a ELSA Registered and airworthy certified Quad city Challenger 2 clip wing for Under 18K and have accumulated 40+ hrs on her to date. I have done a few 200 mile cross countries with club members and I enjoyed every minute I am in the air.
My little aircraft is not IFR equiped, I am not IFR rated and It cost much less then a New SLSA and far less in operational expenses and a ball to fly. She fits my needs just perfect.
I believe that your survey should have included "I don't want to go thru the expense or bother to find out weather I can get a medical or not".. Like the previous poster I had heart problems that have been cleared up by procedures and would have had to pay for a lot of testing to prove to the FAA that I qualify for a medical. The Sport Pilot limitations were not seen by me as being too restrictive for the type of flying I wanted to do. The price of a new SLSA was more than I wanted to invest, so I bought a 2006 model Allegro 2000 used (106 hours) with Dynon 100 EFIS, 100 hp Rotax, Garmin 396, Transponder, Icom radio for the price of a 20-25 year old 172. The back seats would go empty 95% of the time and I would have burned 2-3 times the fuel to go 15%-25% faster. Not to mention all other matainence cost being way higher... Bottom line I am thankful for the chance to be a pilot of a real airplane that can fly cross country(bought the pane in North Carolina and flew it to Arizona) as well as do the 2-6 hour flights I want to do ... Everyone has different needs and values and Sport Pilot opens up flight to a lot more of us.
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!
Ka7eej
Your right about the cost of testing to prove to the FAA you are fit to fly. I never had a medical denied. I just just never renewed it when i stopped flying.
Not only do you have the expense of all the testing. then you have to do it all over again every year because you will be issued a special issuance medical which has to be renewed yearly.
good luck with your allegro.
Your right about the cost of testing to prove to the FAA you are fit to fly. I never had a medical denied. I just just never renewed it when i stopped flying.
Not only do you have the expense of all the testing. then you have to do it all over again every year because you will be issued a special issuance medical which has to be renewed yearly.
good luck with your allegro.
Here's another I don't want to go through the hassle to find out and then be at some doctor's mercy. All I want is to learn to fly in someone else's J-3 Cub off a grass strip the way it was done years ago, and then rent the same for good weather flights around the local area. I'm certainly healthy enough for that. We just sail on the local lake rather than trailer to different waters. For cross-countries, we'll tow the Airstream or maybe ride the Harley, which we don't do long distance on like we used to. Yes, we're nostalgic, but we already have too many toys that need maintenance. I prefer to let someone else pay for the airplane's.
Moe
I agree with those choices... When the time comes for me to hang up the medical game, or I have doubts about passing, or have to go through hassles, I would do the same. For poll purposes I would put that in the CANNOT get medical side. I debated on making the choices MEDICAL/NO MEDICAL - regardless of what the reason is, but thought it might be confusing (e.g. no medical meaning no problems getting medical or have no medical, which one is it 
I originally liked the LSA category for cost and technology, but that seems to be waning. You're pushing $150k for a fully equipped top-end LSA, which starts to make less and less sense when you can get some late model GA aircraft (1999-2003 Archer III, 1999-2001 Cirrus SR20, 1997-2001 172SP, 2003-2005 OMF/Symphony etc.) for the same price. I thought the 125k mark would be to top limit, but apparently not. Right now I will stay with the club that bought my old 172SP and I'll keep waiting for the evolution of the category.
I originally liked the LSA category for cost and technology, but that seems to be waning. You're pushing $150k for a fully equipped top-end LSA, which starts to make less and less sense when you can get some late model GA aircraft (1999-2003 Archer III, 1999-2001 Cirrus SR20, 1997-2001 172SP, 2003-2005 OMF/Symphony etc.) for the same price. I thought the 125k mark would be to top limit, but apparently not. Right now I will stay with the club that bought my old 172SP and I'll keep waiting for the evolution of the category.
Flying for me
Interesting Poll, Having had to go through the annual "right of passage" while I was in the Army reserves....the aircraft in my unit now belong to the National Guard and I am a happy and humble civilian...(not really work for the local government)....I saw LSA as a real advantage....there are aircraft that allow VFR true cross country in comfort and in some ways that's how I was looking at it....but costs of the LSA's and the lack of rentals around me have staved off the training. There are instructors listed in the area that will train but no aircraft.......I am not worried about medical....Not yet at least.... I am worried about the lack of AC...
I am worried about the lack of AC...Ron B.
Midwest USA
Home Airport KDEC
Midwest USA
Home Airport KDEC
Around here the main reason to become a sport pilot is avoidance of the medical
others are:
one that already owns a two place ultralight and converted to ELSA.
one has a father with a J-3 and that's all he wants to fly.
The last already had a private glider rating and could add on sport pilot without a new written and check ride. He bought a PA-17 Vagabond.
Only one of the 15 sport pilots through here so far bought a new SLSA. He is not active any more. The rest purchased standard category airplanes that were sport pilot eligible or rent my Cub. All of them were exposed to new LSA designs, most flew the X air, some flew a Titan, Kappa, CT, Quicksilver, Rans, Tecnam before buying their airplanes.
They have purchased a mix of Cubs (2) , Taylorcrafts (1) , Aeronca Chief (1), Vagabonds(3), CT (1), Aeronca defender (1),
One just flew his Vagabond from PA to Minn. He was a new sport pilot in June. 14 hours each way
A 95-120 mph airplane could do a lot of travel in good weather. I've been thinking of putting the 172 on a Day VFR Part 135 certificate. Same speed or slower as most new SLSA's
Lots of private and greater older pilots have switched over to LSA legal airplanes to avoid the medical issue also but I'm not counting those except the ones that had not flown since 1980 or older and came back to finish as sport pilots.
The FAA has no real idea how many are active without a medical.
if you can get the medical your best bang for the buck is pay the $8,500- $10,000 for a PPL and then buy a good condition standard category for $25,000 to $45,000
If your creative you can probably do it cheaper.
Total cost outlay can be under $40,000 and you can fly at night, carry more than one passenger, any airspace, no sets of aircraft, do owner allowed maintenance such as oil changes. Airplane devalues less in the first 5 years or may rise in value. If you buy an all metal airplane you can park it outside if needed. Easily available parts, oil, and maintenance
Cost to keep a SLSA or a two place standard category are the same.
There are plenty of low time cared for older airplanes that can be upgraded with new avionics and fly great for less than 1/2 the price.
The new SLSA have some features that can't be found on an older airplane but you will pay a price for those. Most features are available as STC kits for standard category.
I fly LSA legal airplanes because I like that type of airplane and fun flying. But it was also fun before LSA was thought of.
others are:
one that already owns a two place ultralight and converted to ELSA.
one has a father with a J-3 and that's all he wants to fly.
The last already had a private glider rating and could add on sport pilot without a new written and check ride. He bought a PA-17 Vagabond.
Only one of the 15 sport pilots through here so far bought a new SLSA. He is not active any more. The rest purchased standard category airplanes that were sport pilot eligible or rent my Cub. All of them were exposed to new LSA designs, most flew the X air, some flew a Titan, Kappa, CT, Quicksilver, Rans, Tecnam before buying their airplanes.
They have purchased a mix of Cubs (2) , Taylorcrafts (1) , Aeronca Chief (1), Vagabonds(3), CT (1), Aeronca defender (1),
One just flew his Vagabond from PA to Minn. He was a new sport pilot in June. 14 hours each way
A 95-120 mph airplane could do a lot of travel in good weather. I've been thinking of putting the 172 on a Day VFR Part 135 certificate. Same speed or slower as most new SLSA's
Lots of private and greater older pilots have switched over to LSA legal airplanes to avoid the medical issue also but I'm not counting those except the ones that had not flown since 1980 or older and came back to finish as sport pilots.
The FAA has no real idea how many are active without a medical.
if you can get the medical your best bang for the buck is pay the $8,500- $10,000 for a PPL and then buy a good condition standard category for $25,000 to $45,000
If your creative you can probably do it cheaper.
Total cost outlay can be under $40,000 and you can fly at night, carry more than one passenger, any airspace, no sets of aircraft, do owner allowed maintenance such as oil changes. Airplane devalues less in the first 5 years or may rise in value. If you buy an all metal airplane you can park it outside if needed. Easily available parts, oil, and maintenance
Cost to keep a SLSA or a two place standard category are the same.
There are plenty of low time cared for older airplanes that can be upgraded with new avionics and fly great for less than 1/2 the price.
The new SLSA have some features that can't be found on an older airplane but you will pay a price for those. Most features are available as STC kits for standard category.
I fly LSA legal airplanes because I like that type of airplane and fun flying. But it was also fun before LSA was thought of.
Charlie - that's really good info. I keep hearing about FBO's that have sport pilot programs, but I rarely hear the background of the students.
It sounds like all your new sport pilots already had flying experience before they started sport pilot instruction - or maybe I didn't understand what you wrote.
How many of your new sport pilots started from scratch (zero hours)? Or were they all current (or non-medical) PPL's first?
For example, did the guy who flew his Vagabond from PA to MN have no flying experience before his sport pilot lessons?
Thanks.
Tom
It sounds like all your new sport pilots already had flying experience before they started sport pilot instruction - or maybe I didn't understand what you wrote.
How many of your new sport pilots started from scratch (zero hours)? Or were they all current (or non-medical) PPL's first?
For example, did the guy who flew his Vagabond from PA to MN have no flying experience before his sport pilot lessons?
Thanks.
Tom
The guy with the vagabond started from scratch about two years ago. no prior flying experience
He flew my cub about 75 hours and then bought the vagabond. He flew it 150 hours + in the first year!! Almost all of it in the pattern.
I asked why one day and he said he flew RC for a long time starting in the late 60's and every time he turned right he crashed. So he made lots of left turns. He's also 6' 5" and has no problem with room in the vagabond. Never in a real hurry for his checkride just likes to fly.
The RC pilots usually turn into good full scale pilots.
No radio or starter in the vagabond but he had two handheld GPS and lots of batteries.
I would say we have 5-6 sport pilots who started from scratch and went through to get their certificate. The rest had some flying experience before. One of the latest flew F-4 Phantoms and then quit when he got out of the military after Vietnam. He just passed his checkride.
another guy taught himself to fly and came with who knows how many hours in his Rans. never had a logbook. It looked funny when I soloed him with four hours J-3 time. We did the last two hours before solo just to make his log look more normal. He flew the maneuvers in the cub, needed SP time and took the test. Then bought a VW powered experimental design. Did it in the minimum hours.
It's been an odd bunch.
He flew my cub about 75 hours and then bought the vagabond. He flew it 150 hours + in the first year!! Almost all of it in the pattern.
I asked why one day and he said he flew RC for a long time starting in the late 60's and every time he turned right he crashed. So he made lots of left turns. He's also 6' 5" and has no problem with room in the vagabond. Never in a real hurry for his checkride just likes to fly.
The RC pilots usually turn into good full scale pilots.
No radio or starter in the vagabond but he had two handheld GPS and lots of batteries.
I would say we have 5-6 sport pilots who started from scratch and went through to get their certificate. The rest had some flying experience before. One of the latest flew F-4 Phantoms and then quit when he got out of the military after Vietnam. He just passed his checkride.
another guy taught himself to fly and came with who knows how many hours in his Rans. never had a logbook. It looked funny when I soloed him with four hours J-3 time. We did the last two hours before solo just to make his log look more normal. He flew the maneuvers in the cub, needed SP time and took the test. Then bought a VW powered experimental design. Did it in the minimum hours.
It's been an odd bunch.
I personally started in 1970 to get a PPL. My first son came along in 1972 and the flying ended with just short of 20 hours in the book. Years went by and all I l flew was Microsoft Flight Simulator. A year or so ago I became aware of the Sport Pilot certificate and got interested again.
I found a local flight school that had a Zodiac 601 and started flying again. The instructor left and the plane was down for a couple of weeks and the number of hours I had then caused me to change course and head back in the PPL direction.
My main reason for changing course is to be able to fly LSA without all of the Sport Pilot restrictions. It will also open me up to renting something else if I can't find an LSA to rent (not many available) and want to go somewhere.
Randy Epstein
I found a local flight school that had a Zodiac 601 and started flying again. The instructor left and the plane was down for a couple of weeks and the number of hours I had then caused me to change course and head back in the PPL direction.
My main reason for changing course is to be able to fly LSA without all of the Sport Pilot restrictions. It will also open me up to renting something else if I can't find an LSA to rent (not many available) and want to go somewhere.
Randy Epstein