ok, gota vent at ATC and pilots...

glyn · Post by **glyn** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:21 pm

ok,, just because your an ATC at at a large airport and you are 22 yrs old flying an Boeing 777 doesn't give you the right to think that and " LSA " should not be in your airspace.

here's how it went.

Dallas app this is Tecnam N143AG requesting flight following from DTO to TYR.

uhhhhh, N143AG say what you are.

Dallas i am a Tecnam Light Sport flying out of Denton to Tyler requesting flight following through your airspace.

then some other pilot chimes in - there isn't suppose to be any light sports in this big boy airspace.

then some other idiot says - yea, this suppose to be for us not some fry airplane.

Dallas app im a seasoned pilot with more flying experiance than just pulling back and pushing autopilot so if you don't mind i would like to get a flight following so a REAL pilot can get to where he needs to go.

ooookkkkk, 143AG squawk etc, etc.

Squawk etc, etc thank you sir and have a blessed day, oh and for the two heros that had to comment, when you actually want to learn to fly come see me.

then the radio's lit up with people laughing!!!!!! all flying through DFW airspace...
so in other words, if you think that someone is flying an LSA, dont ASSUME that they don't know what they are doing. yes im young but i love to fly!!!!!

glyn

vwvectors · Post by **vwvectors** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:49 pm

There are still a lot of controllers that are not familar with LSA . Also they have to remember alot of info so please do not take it personnally . As for the other pilots well u decide .

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:20 pm

Glyn - great story.

And congrats on having a good comeback to the twerps who gave you a hard time.

I'd bet than the guys in the tower thought "light sport" = ultralight, or something similar.

As another story goes ...

LSA waits at hold short line while 757 comes in to land. A few minutes later, as the 757 taxis by, heavy pilot says over the radio "aw ... what a cute little plane - did you build it all by yourself?"

LSA pilot replies: "Yep - out of the parts that fell of your plane when you landed it last time. One more landing like that and I can build another."

Well done Glyn!

Tom

glyn · Post by **glyn** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:08 am

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

good one tom!!!

the thing is that US Aviation Group ( where i sell LSA's ) is in Denton, 20 miles north of Dallas. were under their airspace so ATC should be ready for such. but people just fly around it. sorry but i've taken bigger planes through and why not an LSA. heck, it fly's faster than some i've flown.

i didn't take ATC personally but the 2 butts in the air i did a bit.. heck, i x-military comebacks are second nature..

MikeM · Post by **MikeM** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Great response! I think a lot of pilots don't have respect for Light Sport airplanes. One time a guy got out of a Mooney while the pilot fueled it up and came over to check out the FDsw I had just parked on the ramp. He checked it over and proceeded to say that wasn't much more than a plastic play toy. Lucky for him I'm not real good at comebacks or I would have given him a real tongue-lashing

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:16 pm

MikeM,

Three words come to mind...and one of them should fit!!

1. Stupidity
2. Uninformed
3. Jealousy

By the way...I've seen a lot of retired "heavy iron" pilots buying and flying these things - we'll get credit due someday!

EppyGA · Post by **EppyGA** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:48 pm

MikeM wrote:Great response! I think a lot of pilots don't have respect for Light Sport airplanes. One time a guy got out of a Mooney while the pilot fueled it up and came over to check out the FDsw I had just parked on the ramp. He checked it over and proceeded to say that wasn't much more than a plastic play toy. Lucky for him I'm not real good at comebacks or I would have given him a real tongue-lashing

After the accident at Sebring Sunday there's been a spirited discussion over at www.pilotsofamerica.com about LSA and their pilots.

Randy

rfane · Post by **rfane** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:41 am

Randy,

Thanks for the link. Most of the participants are also on the AOPA forums. It's getting better slowly, but my experience has been that it's been a place where LSA / SP's are looked down upon heavily. Most of it has been due to ignorance.

KSCessnaDriver · Post by **KSCessnaDriver** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:14 am

Its quite sad over at pilotsofamerica. Apparently, they are very much against light sport, and thus, basically don't feel that light sport should have access to the same airspace.

I'm a member over there, and I'm ashamed that they think a light sport pilot is somehow inferior. I'd bet that 90% of them have never been in a light sport, and don't know what they are missing.

rsteele · Post by **rsteele** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:37 pm

Check out this link on avweb. Seems like the problem isn't Sport Pilots, its higher rated pilots that don't know what they are doing in sport plane!

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/LS ... 629-1.html

Ron

EppyGA · Post by **EppyGA** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

rfane wrote:Randy,

Thanks for the link. Most of the participants are also on the AOPA forums. It's getting better slowly, but my experience has been that it's been a place where LSA / SP's are looked down upon heavily. Most of it has been due to ignorance.

The funny part, at least to me, was a couple of them kept beating on Sport Pilots and as it turns out the pilot of that Remos has a commercial and IR as well as being a CFI. I suspected as much from the beginning of the thread since most of the folks I've met that are selling or representing LSA have those kinds of credentials.

It is a shame. In my case I started in 1970 to get a private and had to quit in 1972. I got to restart a year ago and had targeted a sport pilot certificate. Circumstances though pushed me ahead to complete my private certificate.

I am still quite interested in LSA though, my certificate will just allow a little more latitude.

Randy

Roy Dietsch · Post by **Roy Dietsch** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:31 pm

I just started my flight lessons. I wanted to go for a LSA license since it just makes more sense for what I want to do. When I started contacting flight schools I was met with a very uninviting tone. I spoke to some of the reps for the publications we advertise in as well they mentioned how LSA is a newer thing and is generally looked down upon. None of the flight schools I spoke with even knew how to get an LSA license. I think its elitism at its best. If the cause is ignorance; the cure would be education. I know I am very green to flying but it would seem that more people flying would help reduce cost for everyone and give us bigger and better airports and FBO’s. It’s unfortunate that other pilots look down on such a good thing just because it threatens their false sense of superiority.

Cheers,
Roy

EppyGA · Post by **EppyGA** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:13 am

Roy Dietsch wrote:I just started my flight lessons. I wanted to go for a LSA license since it just makes more sense for what I want to do. When I started contacting flight schools I was met with a very uninviting tone. I spoke to some of the reps for the publications we advertise in as well they mentioned how LSA is a newer thing and is generally looked down upon. None of the flight schools I spoke with even knew how to get an LSA license. I think its elitism at its best. If the cause is ignorance; the cure would be education. I know I am very green to flying but it would seem that more people flying would help reduce cost for everyone and give us bigger and better airports and FBO’s. It’s unfortunate that other pilots look down on such a good thing just because it threatens their false sense of superiority.

Cheers,
Roy

Generally when I talk to high time pilots about LSA they usually talk about plastic airplanes and not wanting to fly a plane without a real engine in it. There is a lot of bias against composites and the Rotax.

It's always interesting when you mention that the predator drone is powered by the Rotax.

Randy

Doss79 · Post by **Doss79** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:57 am

Thanks for that thread. I read through about half of it and saw so much misinformation spewed around.

I'm currently training for a sport pilot license and I have taken the written exam. I also took a practical risk management course from the FAA in order to get an insurance discount. Nearly everything mentioned in that link contradicts what the FAA says. For example, it is often thought that the most dangerous time one flies is when he is a student pilot. That is not true. Accidents happen 50% more often with an experienced pilot with hundreds and thousands of hours (FAA, King Schools stats). Put it this way: the more flying hours one gets, the more the odds favor an accident is going to happen!

One thing, though, is pilots of all experience levels are still using the old adage that "it's more dangerous to drive to the airport than fly!". That is not true. It's still more dangerous to fly GA. It's very safe if you're gonna fly on a jetliner, but GA is still on par with motorcycle accidents. This is a reality check for me, as well.

Also, due to the latest AOPA bulletin, Sport Pilots are now safer than the rest of GA due to the strict weather minimums.

One thing I do agree with is that every sport pilot should receive at least 1hr of "hood" time. I already ran into a terrible IMC during the early hours of my training and it freaked me out. I was in a J3 Cub and it was a total white out...but even on a cloudless day, you can't see much out of a Cub anyways, so nothing new here

Kept my eyes on that altitude indicator, though! Lesson learned: i knowingly flew in bad weather conditions when I could've just kept the cub hangared.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:19 am

One thing that keeps hitting me about that Avemco statement:

"The accident rate in Light Sport Aircraft is "horrid" but it's getting better according to an insurance industry executive. Mike Adams, vice president of underwriting for Avemco ..."

Doesn't sound good at all, if that's what the insurance industry is experiencing and/or thinking.

hmmmmm

Tom