Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

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dstclair
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by dstclair »

Interesting discussion. To the specific point, I agree with the majority that FD is doing excellent client service by offering a 90% discount. Keep in mind that a five year old part would depreciate far beyond 10%.

As to the theory.... I'm no attorney but I have more than passing expertise in contract law. Merchantability is indeed as York describes but the issue in this point is whether the merchant breached the implied warranty. For example:
The question of whether goods are fit for their ordinary purpose is much more frequently litigated. Thomas Coffer sued the manufacturer of a jar of mixed nuts after he bit down on an unshelled filbert, believing it to have been shelled, and damaged a tooth. Coffer argued in part that the presence of the unshelled nut among shelled nuts was a breach of the implied warranty of merchantability. Unquestionably, Coffer was using the nuts for their ordinary purpose when he ate them, and unquestionably, he suffered a dental injury when he bit the filbert's hard shell. But the North Carolina appellate court held that the jar of mixed nuts was nonetheless fit for the ordinary purpose for which jars of mixed nuts are used (Coffer v. Standard Brands, 30 N.C. App. 134, 226 S.E.2d 534 [1976]). The court consulted the state agriculture board's regulations and noted that the peanut industry allows a small amount of unshelled nuts to be included with shelled nuts without rendering the shelled nuts inedible or adulterated. The court also noted that shells are a natural incident to nuts.
As I understand the defect, it is cosmetic in nature and does not effect the airworthiness. I'm guessing the legal question would hinge on whether this constitutes a 'flaw'. IMHO, York would also have to demonstrate that this defect is not common among average CTs stored in the same manner. Don't know if this is the case or if enough data exists to support either view.

Is a perforated aileron a nut shell? You make the call :D
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ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

Thanks but I don't know where you got the impression that I waived the warranty of merchantability. I'll look through my purchase agreement but would have noticed that. Please read my previous posts about warranties.
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dstclair
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by dstclair »

Wasn't implying that you gave up your rights. Just positing that the merchant, the FD dealer in this case, may not be in breach of the warranty of merchantability.
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ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

As I understand the defect, it is cosmetic in nature and does not effect the airworthiness. I'm guessing the legal question would hinge on whether this constitutes a 'flaw'. IMHO, York would also have to demonstrate that this defect is not common among average CTs stored in the same manner. Don't know if this is the case or if enough data exists to support either view.

Is a perforated aileron a nut shell? You make the call
This is very insightful, actually.
The flaw is a collapse in the forward middle section of the stabalator and has nothing to do (in my ignorant opinion) about airworthiness. As for the obvious flaws of the alerion and trim tab-I am sure that an expert would say that it would affect aerodynamics. A sales expert would say that it would cause deminished value to re-sell it.

Interesting discussion students. I took your minds full of MUSH and now you think LIKE A LAWYER!
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by drseti »

ussyorktown wrote:Interesting discussion students. I took your minds full of MUSH and now you think LIKE A LAWYER!
And god help us all!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by Jack Tyler »

I think we can do without further commentary here except to hear a report from Yorktown on how the issue eventually gets resolved. Not chapter & verse. Just the resolution, please...so we know how the customer and FD arrived at closure, with or without judicial intervention.
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ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

This has been an academic discussion and I hope you got some tips from me, a lawyer of 25 years. As I said, I want to stay on good terms with FD so I'll just pay the $800.
One of the Junior Varsity lawyers here pointed out that as stabalator crushed middle under the rudder does not affect flyability then probably it would be merely cosmetic and thus too minor an issue on a $85,000 airplane.

As for breach of warranty of merchantability for the left aleron and trim tab, FD is paying for all of that.

I''ll take a picture of the odd crush under the rudder on the stabalator. Very odd.

Thanks for coming to class. Sure, I'll sign your yearbook.
ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

to hear a report from Yorktown
that's ussyorktown a famed warship. Yorktown is a place in Virginia where the British surrender to George Washington.
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CharlieTango
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by CharlieTango »

Stabilator, trim tab, aileron that seems like a lot of failures. Was it a common cause? Was the cause(s) determined?
ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

common cause you ask?
Being a junior detective I would suspect a bad batch of stuff that made those things up. If you own a flight design built in June 2007 then maybe you should look for collapses too.

I've just got the phone to my "sources" in Ukraine where the German Flight Design makes our airplanes. I was told that the date that my airplane was made coincides the day when an office party where a beer got spilled into the white stuff that makes up the airplanes. Image
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MrMorden
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by MrMorden »

So all this "schooling" us on how to properly enforce warranties of mercantibility, to the point of insulting others who don't think you should go down this road, is now demonstrated by your decision NOT to enforce yours?

How about saving this invaluable education for something for which you will put your money where your big mouth is?

Apologies to everyone else, but I've been wading though this man's near-insane posts for a long time, and I finally snapped. I would not get in an airplane piloted by this man if it was the last ride out of the zombie apocalypse.
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by Super Cub »

Well said Andy!
ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

So this nice old lady calls the police about the obscene activity she witnesses from her home.
The cops come and she takes to her bathroom.
"There" she says, pointing at the high, frosted but slightly opened bathroom window.
Cops, "but lady, I can't even see your neighbors house, let alone any obscene activity!"
Lady, "there, stand on that stool I put under the window."
Take the stool away from the bathroom window lady.Image
Please provide us with the picture of me holding the gun to your head, forcing you to wade through my writings. If I had such power I would go out and write a best seller and make some nice bank deposits.
ussyorktown
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Re: Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

Post by ussyorktown »

By the way-my mechanic, Perry Robertson at Lenhardt in Oregon fixed everything include some spark plugs that were very bad and she flies at 120kts at less than 5200 rpms.
The stabalator has been replaced and FD is doing something different now. Instead of using that thin white tape between the horizontal stabalizer and trim, they now use cloth and screw it on!
FD is paying mechanic Robertson for replacing the defective parts and the German wench who spilled her beer into the batch of white stuff during the office party in 2007-that made all of these parts collapse has been "disciplined." (but in a good 50 Shades of Grey way) Image
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