Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

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eidolon
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Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by eidolon »

I bought my Ercoupe 415C about 7 years ago, tested in it as a Sport Pilot and have been flying it ever since. It has no rudder pedals. I now have over 400 hours in my log book with all but 100 in the coupe. Previously, I had trained in conventional control LSAs (Eaglets & Remos GX). Recently, I bought a Tecnam Eaglet, but cannot legally fly it because I have a limitation on my license: "Ercoupe 415C without rudder pedals only". I had thought it would be an easy matter to get the restriction removed from my license. NOT! Only a DPE can remove such a limitation via a limited re-exam in an aircraft with rudder pedals to demonstrate that I still know how to use them (I do). I expected that, but did not expect the paperwork associated with the process. FAA form 8710-11 (Airman Application for Certification - Sport Pilot) must be filled out MANUALLY and submitted through the DPE, FSDO and ultimately to Oklahoma. IACRA (the on-line electronic system for such certification applications) is NOT programmed to accept applications for re-exam, Sport Pilot.

The problem with manual submissions is that they involve several pages of manual work for the DPE and (in the words of one DPE) the process is a "pain in the butt". DPEs I have contacted flat refuse to process any applications that must be done outside IACRA.

Has anyone else encountered this problem and successfully negotiated the catch 22 paperwork problems associated with it? Suggestions welcome.
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drseti
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

I routinely do category and class add-on checkrides, which can't be done on IACRA. Unfortunately, I do have to charge an extra $100 for filling out all the paperwork and manual processing. See my DPE website for details:

http://SportPilotExaminer.US
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Warmi
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by Warmi »

Hahaha. ... sorry but this is just too funny ... :-)
Thankfully there is no yoke vs stick endorsement ... or is there ?
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

If there isn't, maybe there should be. :D
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by 3Dreaming »

drseti wrote:I routinely do category and class add-on checkrides, which can't be done on IACRA. Unfortunately, I do have to charge an extra $100 for filling out all the paperwork and manual processing. See my DPE website for details:

http://SportPilotExaminer.US
Paul, wouldn't a category or class add-on at the sport pilot level be a proficiency check instead of a checkride? Wouldn't you be acting as an instructor instead of a DPE? This was the impression I got when I spoke to the FAA about category add-on for a non current helicopter pilot who wanted to transfer to a sport pilot airplane.
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

Tom, you're correct that a category/class add-on is a proficiency check, which requires only a second CFI, not a DPE. The OP is trying to remove a restriction from his Sport Pulot certificate, which is a different matter and does require a DPE.

What the two have in common is that neither can be accomplished thru IACRA. Both require a paper application, and (with me) that will incur the additional $100 processing fee I referenced.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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eidolon
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by eidolon »

I would be delighted to pay an extra $100 to find someone that would help me banish this curse. I have already been out hundreds in travel (the plane is 450 miles away from home and I can't fly it home) and torn out most of my hair trying to cram the thing into IACRA. (So did my CFI) After my post, I did find a DPE who seems to be considering the task.

It seems that if I had an unlimited SP license which I acquired by flying a PPC or maybe even a hot air ballon (both in the LS category) I could simply get a log book endorsement from 2 CFIs who checked me out in the plane and I would then be legal? If I read that right, then it is certainly a dark irony.
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by Type47 »

I wonder why general aviation is dying...
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by TimTaylor »

It's not that far from Kentucky to Pennsylvania. Jump in the car and head up to Paul's airport to get it done.
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drseti
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

Unfortunately, getting a category/class add-on would give you new privileges, but would not remove the 2-axis control ASEL restriction. But there may be a simple solution, since you say you have previous experience with rudder pedals.

Did you ever get a student solo endorsement in a 3-axis control aircraft before you completed your SP in the 'Coupe? If so, find the CFI who had given you the early training, and ask him or her to sign off the 8710-11 as Recommending Instructor. (I can guide him or her thru the process.) Then you need only visit me and knock off a very abbreviated checkride in my plane, demonstrating that you know how to use your feet. The checkride will consist essentially of an oral to convince me that you understand yaw, followed by doing a takeoff, pattern, forward slip, go-around, and another pattern to a landing. (Then we can start on the dreaded paperwork.)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

eidolon wrote: It seems that if I had an unlimited SP license which I acquired by flying a PPC or maybe even a hot air ballon (both in the LS category) I could simply get a log book endorsement from 2 CFIs who checked me out in the plane and I would then be legal?
Well, not quite. Yes, a category/class add-on is done by 2 CFIs, one to train you and the other to give you a proficiency check. And, yes, you do get a logbook endorsement for that. But even if that would remove the ASEL restriction (which it wouldn't), the second instructor would still have to submit an 8710-11 manually! This is what happened when I got my own seaplane add-on, as well as recently giving a glider Pilot an ASEL add-on.

The buttload-of-paperwork instructions for doing the above are on my DPE website, at:

http://avsport.org/DPE/docs/proficiency_check.pdf
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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eidolon
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by eidolon »

Paul, that is a very attractive and welcome offer which I will keep in reserve. I did just get an encouraging response from a LSE DPE who is "researching the issue" and is close to where my plane is now (Northern VA). If that should fall through, I may be in contact. To answer your question, I do have about 10 hours of current solo time on the Eaglet and a CFI signed 8710-11 to take the practical re-exam. I also have logged about 50 solo hours on a Remos GX, but that was several years ago. Why didn't I test on that plane? Simple. At the time, I found a nice LSA capable airplane (the Ercoupe) at 1/5th the cost of a newer LSA such as the Eaglet or Remos. I haven't regretted my purchase of the 'Coupe - it has given me many wonderful hours of fun flying and the Young Eagles that fly with me at our EAA events love the funny looking little plane. The restriction on my license did blindside me, but I lived with it until the Eaglet came along - at a much more affordable price than it would have been 7 years ago! I will likely keep my 'Coupe, but I did need something with a little more speed and longer legs for moderate cross country trips. Also, the Eaglet is a bit more comfortable than a plane that was built in an era when the average American male weighed about 155 pounds. :)
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Warmi
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by Warmi »

Nothing against the plane but am curious, why would you want to keep your Ercoupe ?
Unlike , say a taildragger or a Stol plane, it is basically the same type of plane like the Eaglet just a bit less capable and , like you said, a bit less comfortable ...

Asking cause I have enough on my plate ( and streaming out of my wallet ) maintaining just one small LSA - I cannot imagine maintaining both ...and one of them being certified :D
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

At the risk if answering for eidelon:

The 415C is a piece of aviation history. In addition to being the safest airplane of it's time, it is the platform Aerojet (aka JPL) used to first test the concept of JATO. It's a museum piece, well worth preserving.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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drseti
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Re: Removing the rudderless Ercoupe "curse" from license?

Post by drseti »

eidolon wrote:I do have about 10 hours of current solo time on the Eaglet and a CFI signed 8710-11 to take the practical re-exam.
In that case, you might want to consider taking a short vacation, and flying the 'Coupe up to KLHV to fly a 3-axis SportStar with me.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
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