Sport Pilot Talk

Recently certificated sport pilot here, just recently switched to digital logbooks and was transferring my stuff to the logbook and the sorts. Since my checkride I've had two flights, both with a rated CFI, I was told that now I have a certificate I can log dual and PIC at the same time, so on both of those flights I did just that. After totaling my logbook I noticed a discrepancy where if I add my new total dual and PIC I get a number greater than my total time, is this an error on my part? It seemed weird to me since throughout my training I was used to my total time being my dual and PIC time combined, and don't want a discrepancy to come into question later.


EDIT: Realized I could have clarified some things

Is the new total higher by the sum of the two flights where you correctly logged dual and PIC? That is why there is a column for total time. I wouldn't worry about logbooks not being perfect, given enough time they will always end up a bit off.

Most of the commercial logbooks don't have a column marked "dual", just one for "instruction received." You put the instructional flights there. Similarly, you are now PIC on every flight where you are serving in that capacity. So, the "total time" column is actually Hobbs time, regardless of who was PIC. That's why you added instructional time to solo time as a student- you were either one or the other on every flight. But now, you can be both on the same flight - so don't count the Hobbs time twice!

drseti wrote:Most of the commercial logbooks don't have a column marked "dual", just one for "instruction received." You put the instructional flights there. Similarly, you are now PIC on every flight where you are serving in that capacity. So, the "total time" column is actually Hobbs time, regardless of who was PIC. That's why you added instructional time to solo time as a student- you were either one or the other on every flight. But now, you can be both on the same flight - so don't count the Hobbs time twice!

I see now, the only entries in my logbook are these. The bottom entry is a catch up entry from my paper logbook, then my checkride, after that a flight in a friend's 172 where they (a rated CFI) did some instruction and the top one is a checkout flight in a new LSA for me to rent:

Looks good!

drseti wrote:Looks good!

Thank you sir! The flight in the 172 I knew i could log PIC in the 172 as a sole manipulator (but really since I was getting instruction as well) since I have ASEL sport privleges, my instructor who I did my initial training with didn't believe me at first but when I showed him he was shocked. The friend who I flew with in their 172 said that was correct and that I could log PIC/dual at the same time.

Wait a minute - aren't you a Sport Pilot? If so, you can only log PIC in an LSA (and a 172 certainly isn't an LSA).

drseti wrote:Wait a minute - aren't you a Sport Pilot? If so, you can only log PIC in an LSA (and a 172 certainly isn't an LSA).

Sport pilot yes, the logged PIC was when I was manipulating the controls under instruction, I wasn't acting as PIC

Then you can't log it as PIC, even though you were manipulating controls. You have to be a PPT or above to have PIC privileges in other than an LSA.

drseti wrote:Then you can't log it as PIC, even though you were manipulating controls. You have to be a PPT or above to have PIC privileges in other than an LSA.

Oh, my apologies then, I'll adjust that then, I was just going off of this from 61.51:

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.

(1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) Except when logging flight time under § 61.159(c), when the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;

If I read it wrong my apologies

AviatorCrafty wrote:or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;

As I read that, the Category you have privileges for is LSA, and the Class is ASEL. So. WRT the 172, you hold class privileges, but not category privileges.

drseti wrote:

AviatorCrafty wrote:or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;

As I read that, the Category you have privileges for is LSA, and the Class is ASEL. So. WRT the 172, you hold class privileges, but not category privileges.

That makes sense, good thing I caught that early! I forgot that ASEL and ASES respectively are just categories in the sport world, rather than classes, kind of confusing in a situation like this. Fixed the entry to just 1.0 dual and total time.

You cited a Part 61 FAR. Part 61 are the flight training rules. Unless you are training to upgrade to Private Pilot, you are flying under Part 91. If you are training to upgrade to Private, you can do solo hours in an LSA without needing any endorsements. To solo a 172, you could get a solo PIC endorsement, but only after you have logged dual for all required pre-solo maneuvers, passed a pre-solo written test on that particular aircraft, and received a solo endorsement for the 172. Dual in the 172 is of course possible, but you can't be PIC in it until you have your private (or that endorsement).

drseti wrote:You cited a Part 61 FAR. Part 61 are the flight training rules. Unless you are training to upgrade to Private Pilot, you are flying under Part 91. If you are training to upgrade to Private, you can do solo hours in an LSA without needing any endorsements. To solo a 172, you could get a solo PIC endorsement, but only after you have logged dual for all required pre-solo maneuvers, passed a pre-solo written test on that particular aircraft, and received a solo endorsement for the 172. Dual in the 172 is of course possible, but you can't be PIC in it until you have your private (or that endorsement).

Thanks for the clarification! Pursuing my Sport CFI so this will help if I need to clarify myself.

Now I’m confused.

Wouldn’t the Category be Airplane, and the Class Single Engine Land? By that standard, although he can’t solo a non-LSA, he does seem to have the appropriate “rating” to log the time.

I think.