Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

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designrs
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

Welcome and congratulations on beginning your flying journey! :D

Flying very often, I only fly with other people <20% of the time, but having a second seat is totally worth it. Get the second seat! :mrgreen:

There is nothing like having your own plane. Great joys but also great responsibility. Not that it’s necessary, but I rearranged three years of my life to do nothing but fly!

My ownership experience here:
https://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3823

Wife: Separate the physical from mental. It sounds like your wife is physically fine to fly. People are generally afraid of things that they don’t understand. The mental part, unless extreme, can usually be dealt with. Send her up with your CFI and see if she likes it!

Pilot Passengers: Another joy. Be sure to establish that you are pilot in command. Use a positive transfer of controls if you let them fly. A LSA will be very different from most certified aircraft. Call out your intentions and airspeed numbers in advance so they know that you are flying accurately. Lots to be learned from other pilots. If there is marginal weather, other pilots know full well what they are getting into.

Major Cross Country: It’s kind of like camping... at times it can be the GREATEST experience, other times it can really NOT be fun. You and your passenger need to be able to take the good with the bad.

Florida: Is paradise for an LSA! In 30 to 60 minutes you can be in a number of great destinations AND know that you’re most likely getting home the same day! 5-month Summers are hot below 1,500 feet! A few great places: Jekyll Island, Cedar Key, Spruce Creek, Flagler Airport Restaurant

Renting: Costs a fortune... especially for cross-country! Inevitably, long cross-countries are often extended for weather or maintenance. With your own airplane you know everything about it, and you are totally familiar. There is nothing like having your own plane!

LSA Pilots: We are a tight-knit community with lots of shared knowledge. The rest of general aviation is not very knowledgeable about LSA. However, Once they try it, they love it!

Non-Pilot Passengers: One of the greatest joys of flying is sharing it with other people. It’s a big responsibility to take someone up with you, but don’t be overwhelmed.

+ Remember how you felt the first time in a small plane.

+ Plan a short flight, it can always be extended.

+ Introduce them to the plane. Explain your preflight inspection, briefly.

+ Let them know that all good pilots use checklists, and that you’re NOT being absent minded. LOL

+ Ask them about rollercoasters to get a feeling of their physical and mental state.

+ Joke. Tell them that the most dangerous part of flying is driving to the airport. (True!)

+ Follow the safety briefing guidelines while staying positive.

+ Explain sterile cockpit while operating on or near an airport.

+ Educate them a little as you fly. Let them know what to expect.

+ If they fear heights, remind them that flying higher is actually safer.

+ On landing, tell them to look at the far end of the runway, not the numbers that you are “diving” to.

A few other thoughts to keep in mind... going beyond your question:

* Put a bunch of hours in before you take up passengers. Fly WELL below your limits. Remember, passengers are another multitasking responsibility for you the pilot.

** As you get more time (100 to 350 hours) remember, you’re probably not as good as you think you are! LOL Let me explain. You will then have a decent amount of experience, but don’t get over confident, as you still have a lot more to learn.
Last edited by designrs on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by 3Dreaming »

Here are my thoughts. While I have never owned a full size plane with removable wings I have flown larger R/C models with removable wings. To fly something like that takes considerable time and planning. You need time for assembly prior to flying, and disassembly after your done. I'm not saying that an assembled airplane doesn't take time before and after, but it doesn't take as much. You said you have been boating. It is the difference between having a boat docked and ready to go and hauling it to the lake launching and recovering after your done.

The other thing is that you will draw onlookers as you assemble the airplane. A simple distraction can lead to disastrous results. It happens with models, and unfortunately also with full size aircraft. There was a pretty high profile Remos accident at the Sebring show several years back.

I personally in 40 years involved with aviation have not known anyone who regularly trailers an airplane for flight operations, except for maybe a couple in the airshow field.

Now the glider guys do it on a regular basis. Some of the modern gliders are designed for fairly simple rigging, and have specialized trailers for storage. I also know several who are club members and they leave the gliders rigged if possible.
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by Wm.Ince »

drseti wrote:. . . working on my own plane is therapeutic.
A labor of love. . . :D
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

The Sport Plane expo in Sebring Florida woukd give you excellent insight to LSA offerings, and many with removable wings. There are a few vendors that show up with the trailer and all... they have really lived that lifestyle!

Edit: Sebring show is no longer. :(
DeLand is the place to go, but the show is a bit smaller.
Other option is Sun N Fun which is temporary delayed due to Coronavirus.

Hangars in Florida are about $350 (nice airport, older and small T-hangar) to $650 a month (nice airport, new box hangar)
Last edited by designrs on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

Wm.Ince wrote:
drseti wrote:. . . working on my own plane is therapeutic.
A labor of love. . . :D
Love and money! Funny how the two often go together! :mrgreen:
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by ShawnM »

designrs wrote:The Sport Plane expo in Sebring Florida woukd give you excellent insight to LSA offerings, and many with removable wings. There are a few vendors that show up with the trailer and all... they have really lived that lifestyle!

Hangars in Florida are about $350 (nice airport, older and small T-hangar) to $650 a month (nice airport, new box hangar)
Great advice Richard but the Sebring show is no longer a "show". It was cancelled permanently. The Deland Sport Aviation Showcase is now the new place to go for LSA shows in Florida. Remember, you've been there? :mrgreen:

Deland show website for November 2020 -https://www.sportaviationshowcase.com/event-info/index

My hangar in Florida is $255 a month and it's a nice, new T hangar with lots of room and electric.

jbarratt, you could look for a plane with "folding wings" like the Remos. These are never removed, just folded back. It's still a 2 person job but doable. I started my training in one and I liked it for a high wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBVI3zUZbpQ

Just be careful, love can sometimes "separate" you from your money. :mrgreen:
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

Damn! Sorry to have not been accurate on the shows.
Thanks for the correction Shawn!

Sebring was bigger. Were there many “big time” folding wing / camping / road traveling enthusiasts at DeLand?
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by HAPPYDAN »

When you do finally convince her to join you, beware! This is not the time to show off your aerobatic "fighter pilot" skills. I have a good friend whose husband is a commercial pilot. When they were dating, he convinced her to "go for a short ride". She had never been in a plane before. Guess what happened? She has sworn to never get in a plane with him again!
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by jbarratt »

Thanks all... and a special thanks to Designr for your thorough and thoughtful answers to my questions.

First and foremost.... I'm all about safety! A BRS chute will be a non-negotiable on my plane. My wife's or daughter's safety come before everything! I won't take anyone up until I feel extremely confident and even then I'll be a very cautious pilot.

Quick but true story..... got married last April and my beautiful bride went into full cardiac arrest at the restaurant the night of our wedding. Did cpr on her till the paramedics came. She was in coma for almost 2 weeks but she pulled through and now has a pacemaker. She is only 44 if you can believe it. At any rate.... her safety is not something I'd ever risk! :)

Yes I think owning is going to be the only way for me and I agree with all of you that a 2 seater is the way to go!

I think your advice to have my wife go up with a CFI would be a great idea and I'm definitely going to go that route. She is physically healthy... this is just a mental thing for her.

Got a lot of good feedback on the folding wings from all of you. It sounds like the hangar space will be the largest "fixed" cost in the equation. With regards to hangar space and costs.... do any of you share hanger space with other planes? Is that even a thing in the aviation community?

Have a great day everyone!!!
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

Glad to be of help and to hear that your wife is well.

Sharing hanger space: It does occur, but it really only works if:
1) It’s a very large hangar
2) People that don’t fly much keep their planes in the back
3) You are willing to let others move your plane
4) You are willing to risk having your plane damaged, by yourself or others

Scraping paint is called “hangar rash.”

True story:
A very experienced aircraft dealer closed the hangar door on the wing of an aircraft causing significant damage. They are very good people with lots of experience managing multiple aircraft in a single hangar. Stuff happens!

Personal opinion: Don’t do it unless conditions are extremely favorable, even then there is risk.

The Chute: It does add safety in some circumstances, but it’s not the “easy and safe escape” that many believe it to be. I’m not pro-chute nor am I anti-chute. NOT going to start a discussion on chutes here as there are MANY threads on that topic throughout the aviation community discussing the issue ad infinitum.

Stay safe everyone!
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by Wm.Ince »

designrs wrote:
Glad to be of help and to hear that your wife is well.Sharing hanger space: It does occur, but it really only works if:

1) It’s a very large hangar
2) People that don’t fly much keep their planes in the back
3) You are willing to let others move your plane
4) You are willing to risk having your plane damaged, by yourself or others

Scraping paint is called “hangar rash.”

True story:
A very experienced aircraft dealer closed the hangar door on the wing of an aircraft causing significant damage. They are very good people with lots of experience managing multiple aircraft in a single hangar. Stuff happens!
Personal opinion: Don’t do it unless conditions are extremely favorable, even then there is risk.
Good advice.
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by designrs »

HAPPYDAN wrote:When you do finally convince her to join you, beware! This is not the time to show off your aerobatic "fighter pilot" skills. I have a good friend whose husband is a commercial pilot. When they were dating, he convinced her to "go for a short ride". She had never been in a plane before. Guess what happened? She has sworn to never get in a plane with him again!
Yep. You have to ease them into it slowly and try to read their physical and mental condition. One thing that is very helpful is to say, “If you start to feel bad, please tell me immediately. On a scale of 1 to 10, I want you to always feel great at 10. Don’t wait until you feel 8 to tell me.” Once they go down, they go down fast.

The Slow Introduction:
My current girlfriend had some physical challenges about flying. I let her sit in the plane. Another day we just taxied. We spent a lot of time around the hangar. By the time she flew, the airplane wasn't such a strange machine.

Control:
Sometimes it helps to “let them fly a little” cautiously. It allows them feel in control.
(Another great reason for side-by-side seating.)

The Good:
A previous girlfriend took to flying really fast. After several days of flying with me, I coached her down to 500 feet on approach! I jokingly asked her, “Do you want to land it?” She said, “Hell no!”

The Bad:
Another time I took a friend up around sunset. Short flight. We were over the coast and he was doing fine. I pointed out “Look! No line on the horizon over the ocean.” Immediately after, I banked moderately hard to avoid controlled airspace. THAT WAS IT! He managed to hold it down until we got on the ground, then immediately jumped out of the plane.

Now, I have air sickness bags in my plane, but THIS GUY! I never saw someone puke SO MUCH in my LIFE! He was literally LIKE A FOUNTAIN!! I said, “What the hell did you eat?” He replied, “A huge dinner and chocolate cake!”

Moral of the story: Light but solid food before flying... and DON’T disorient the passenger! :lol:
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by MrMorden »

My wife will fly with me, but there has to be a reason and a destination. Saving two hours by flying instead of driving to visit my Mom? Check! Flying from Georgia to Michigan to visit her Mom? Check! Flying in to a small airport for lunch? Check! Flying "around the patch" on a beautiful day to just enjoy aviation? NO!

She doesn't find flying fun in and of itself, and needs to have a reason to go. But if you give her a reason she's a great sport, even if the weather gets marginal and bumpy.
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by sandpiper »

MrMorden wrote:My wife will fly with me, but there has to be a reason and a destination. Saving two hours by flying instead of driving to visit my Mom? Check! Flying from Georgia to Michigan to visit her Mom? Check! Flying in to a small airport for lunch? Check! Flying "around the patch" on a beautiful day to just enjoy aviation? NO!

She doesn't find flying fun in and of itself, and needs to have a reason to go. But if you give her a reason she's a great sport, even if the weather gets marginal and bumpy.
Andy
Are we married to the same woman?? You have described my wife, with respect to aviation, perfectly!

Flying doesn't bother her at all. She has fallen asleep at the controls - more than once!! She is one heck of a navigator. That was really important before GPS when we lived in Alaska and flew through the Yukon, British Columbia and Alberta to get to the "lower forty-eight".
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Re: Will the wife fly with you?? Is a 2 seater overkill for me?

Post by AviatorCrafty »

My invisible wife never seems to have an issue with anything :lol:
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