Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Constructive topics of interest related to aviation that do not match the other section descriptions below (as long as it is somewhat related to aviation, flying, learning to fly, sport pilot, light sport aircraft, etc.). Please, advertisements for Viagra will be promptly deleted!"

Moderator: drseti

Post Reply
User avatar
AviatorCrafty
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by AviatorCrafty »

Just out of curiosity what would it take for a sport pilot to go to a private pilot license rated in gliders? I discovered an SSA gliding club not too far from me and from what it looks like I'd be able to get my license for a pretty decent price since it's a membership-based club where instruction is free to members. None of their gliders are LSA eligible so I couldn't just do the add-on process to my sport pilot license. I understand I'd have to do the process like a student pilot where I'd have to do the written test and do the flight time over again, however hypothetically if I were to go this route since the private pilot glider would have much more privileges than my sport pilot license and I'd have the chance to eventually fly a motor glider which far exceeds sport pilot regs too with the self-launch endorsement, what would I have to do?
Commercial Pilot - Glider
Sport Pilot ASEL
Remote Pilot

John 3:16
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by drseti »

I can't speak to that exact question, Crafty, but I've had a student go in the other direction. He was a Private Pilot Glider, who added Airplane privileges under Sport Pilot rules. That turns out to be quite easy, as it requires just one CFI to train, and another do perform an proficiency check. The only problem is, the add-on cannot be done through IACRA, and requires filing a paper 8710-11 application. We encountered some paperwork difficulties, and had the forms bounced back by the FSDO a couple of times before we got it right. The detailed procedures are outlined on my server, in this document:

http://avsport.org/DPE/docs/proficiency_check.pdf

It would be nice if FAA would issue a similar set of instructions for going the other way!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by 3Dreaming »

As you stated you will have to take a private pilot glider knowledge test. If you have for than 40 hours flight time in heavier than air aircraft you will need a minimum of 3 hours in a glider, 10 solo flights, and 3 training flights in preparation for the checkride. You will need a 61.31 (d) endorsement for solo in the glider. Finally you will have to take a private pilot glider checkride.
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by 3Dreaming »

What training gliders does the club have? Most of the newer composite 2 seat gliders are not LSA, but many of the older gliders are. You would need to check the gross weight and VNE to be sure. They might actually have LSA gliders and not realize it. They may also be reluctant to do a LSA glider add on due to lack of knowledge.
Otto
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by Otto »

Most US clubs have a Schweizer 2-33 they are LSA legal. Rare in the US, Puchaz is also a LSA legal 2 seater. Most gliders are not LSA legal due to high VNE. Most single seaters, 1-26s being a notable exception, are not LSA legal, again due to VNE. Private pilot glider is relatively easy to get, of course nothing is easier than SP privilege add on. Very likely the club has a 2-33 but no one has done or understands SP. I'm in a large glider club and we train private power transition students all the time and no one has yet to go the SP route, and I do suggest it. If you have a rating there is no additional cost to getting SP privileges first in a new category(no written, no checkride) and as no solo is required it avoids the silliness where you can't solo a rated pilot in a new category unless they have a current flight review. Logically glider clubs should using the SP glider step with all power transition pilots but it isn't happening.
Clever thing you can do if you go SP glider is a SP glider pilot can simply get a solo endorsement for any single seat glider they want to fly that isn't LSA legal. Who cares if you can't carry passengers there is only one seat. :)
One reason not to be a glider pilot with SP as the highest rating is in the Western states you can easily fly around over 10,000' on any half decent day.
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by 3Dreaming »

Our club has a K6, K8, and K13 which are all LSA. We also have a Grob 102 and 103. I originally wanted to do a sport pilot and sport instructor add on, but the instructors wanted nothing to do with it. The reason I wanted to do it was because we don't have a glider DPE in out FSDO area. I had to wait several months to be able to do a checkride. When I did do the ride it was a commercial add on. I did flight instructor one year later. Here in the middle of the country around 500 feet MSL flying above 10,000 feet is a rareity.
User avatar
AviatorCrafty
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by AviatorCrafty »

Otto wrote:Most US clubs have a Schweizer 2-33 they are LSA legal. Rare in the US, Puchaz is also a LSA legal 2 seater. Most gliders are not LSA legal due to high VNE. Most single seaters, 1-26s being a notable exception, are not LSA legal, again due to VNE. Private pilot glider is relatively easy to get, of course nothing is easier than SP privilege add on. Very likely the club has a 2-33 but no one has done or understands SP. I'm in a large glider club and we train private power transition students all the time and no one has yet to go the SP route, and I do suggest it. If you have a rating there is no additional cost to getting SP privileges first in a new category(no written, no checkride) and as no solo is required it avoids the silliness where you can't solo a rated pilot in a new category unless they have a current flight review. Logically glider clubs should using the SP glider step with all power transition pilots but it isn't happening.
Clever thing you can do if you go SP glider is a SP glider pilot can simply get a solo endorsement for any single seat glider they want to fly that isn't LSA legal. Who cares if you can't carry passengers there is only one seat. :)
One reason not to be a glider pilot with SP as the highest rating is in the Western states you can easily fly around over 10,000' on any half decent day.

They have a 2-33A for training, but their policy is club members must be checked out in all 5 of their gliders, even if I decided to get my private glider I'd explore getting the self-launch endorsement so I could fly touring motor gliders which can carry much more than an LSA. I've seen some motorgliders that have short and gliding wings, the short ones would need sport pilot ASEL or higher to fly while the glider wings could let the plane be flown with the private pilot glider with self-launch endorsement.
Commercial Pilot - Glider
Sport Pilot ASEL
Remote Pilot

John 3:16
Otto
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by Otto »

AviatorCrafty wrote:
Otto wrote:Most US clubs have a Schweizer 2-33 they are LSA legal. Rare in the US, Puchaz is also a LSA legal 2 seater. Most gliders are not LSA legal due to high VNE. Most single seaters, 1-26s being a notable exception, are not LSA legal, again due to VNE. Private pilot glider is relatively easy to get, of course nothing is easier than SP privilege add on. Very likely the club has a 2-33 but no one has done or understands SP. I'm in a large glider club and we train private power transition students all the time and no one has yet to go the SP route, and I do suggest it. If you have a rating there is no additional cost to getting SP privileges first in a new category(no written, no checkride) and as no solo is required it avoids the silliness where you can't solo a rated pilot in a new category unless they have a current flight review. Logically glider clubs should using the SP glider step with all power transition pilots but it isn't happening.
Clever thing you can do if you go SP glider is a SP glider pilot can simply get a solo endorsement for any single seat glider they want to fly that isn't LSA legal. Who cares if you can't carry passengers there is only one seat. :)
One reason not to be a glider pilot with SP as the highest rating is in the Western states you can easily fly around over 10,000' on any half decent day.

They have a 2-33A for training, but their policy is club members must be checked out in all 5 of their gliders, even if I decided to get my private glider I'd explore getting the self-launch endorsement so I could fly touring motor gliders which can carry much more than an LSA. I've seen some motorgliders that have short and gliding wings, the short ones would need sport pilot ASEL or higher to fly while the glider wings could let the plane be flown with the private pilot glider with self-launch endorsement.
If they are willing you could add on SP privileges in the 2-33 get checked out in everything else, use a solo endorsement if the glider isn't LSA compliant. With free instruction in most clubs there is zero additional cost picking up the SP glider add on on the way to PPG. Anyway you go have fun, gliders are my favorite and I've flown a bit of most everything.
User avatar
AviatorCrafty
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by AviatorCrafty »

Otto wrote:
AviatorCrafty wrote:
Otto wrote:Most US clubs have a Schweizer 2-33 they are LSA legal. Rare in the US, Puchaz is also a LSA legal 2 seater. Most gliders are not LSA legal due to high VNE. Most single seaters, 1-26s being a notable exception, are not LSA legal, again due to VNE. Private pilot glider is relatively easy to get, of course nothing is easier than SP privilege add on. Very likely the club has a 2-33 but no one has done or understands SP. I'm in a large glider club and we train private power transition students all the time and no one has yet to go the SP route, and I do suggest it. If you have a rating there is no additional cost to getting SP privileges first in a new category(no written, no checkride) and as no solo is required it avoids the silliness where you can't solo a rated pilot in a new category unless they have a current flight review. Logically glider clubs should using the SP glider step with all power transition pilots but it isn't happening.
Clever thing you can do if you go SP glider is a SP glider pilot can simply get a solo endorsement for any single seat glider they want to fly that isn't LSA legal. Who cares if you can't carry passengers there is only one seat. :)
One reason not to be a glider pilot with SP as the highest rating is in the Western states you can easily fly around over 10,000' on any half decent day.

They have a 2-33A for training, but their policy is club members must be checked out in all 5 of their gliders, even if I decided to get my private glider I'd explore getting the self-launch endorsement so I could fly touring motor gliders which can carry much more than an LSA. I've seen some motorgliders that have short and gliding wings, the short ones would need sport pilot ASEL or higher to fly while the glider wings could let the plane be flown with the private pilot glider with self-launch endorsement.
If they are willing you could add on SP privileges in the 2-33 get checked out in everything else, use a solo endorsement if the glider isn't LSA compliant. With free instruction in most clubs there is zero additional cost picking up the SP glider add on on the way to PPG. Anyway you go have fun, gliders are my favorite and I've flown a bit of most everything.
Yeah with a PPG it seems I could fly motor gliders with constant speed propellers or even jets. I could even go onto commercial/CFI without a medical. I'm gonna look further into it.
Commercial Pilot - Glider
Sport Pilot ASEL
Remote Pilot

John 3:16
User avatar
AviatorCrafty
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by AviatorCrafty »

Also to add I have 44 hours total flight time, all in ASEL so don't my flight times required for the PPG change even though I'm still a sport pilot? The FAA mentioned requirements if I didn't have at least 40 hours total time as a pilot.
Commercial Pilot - Glider
Sport Pilot ASEL
Remote Pilot

John 3:16
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by 3Dreaming »

AviatorCrafty wrote:Also to add I have 44 hours total flight time, all in ASEL so don't my flight times required for the PPG change even though I'm still a sport pilot? The FAA mentioned requirements if I didn't have at least 40 hours total time as a pilot.
Yes, as I stated in the 3rd post if you have more that 40 hours logged in heavier than air you will need a minimum of 3 hours flight time, 10 solo flights, 3 flights in prep for the checkride, plus you will have to take the knowledge test since you are moving from sport to private. In reality the flight time and number of flights will be what ever it takes to get you comfortable and ready for the checkride.

The regulation stating this is 61.109, (f), (2).
User avatar
AviatorCrafty
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by AviatorCrafty »

3Dreaming wrote:
AviatorCrafty wrote:Also to add I have 44 hours total flight time, all in ASEL so don't my flight times required for the PPG change even though I'm still a sport pilot? The FAA mentioned requirements if I didn't have at least 40 hours total time as a pilot.
Yes, as I stated in the 3rd post if you have more that 40 hours logged in heavier than air you will need a minimum of 3 hours flight time, 10 solo flights, 3 flights in prep for the checkride, plus you will have to take the knowledge test since you are moving from sport to private. In reality the flight time and number of flights will be what ever it takes to get you comfortable and ready for the checkride.

The regulation stating this is 61.109, (f), (2).

Thanks! Also if I ever got my commercial certificate in gliders just out of curiosity what could one do with that besides getting the glider CFI, only thing I could think of would be ferrying motor gliders or normal gliders. Also can someone with a PPG fly at night? VFR on top? Not necessarily a good idea but I haven't seen any regs prohibiting them since you are a private pilot after all.
Commercial Pilot - Glider
Sport Pilot ASEL
Remote Pilot

John 3:16
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sport Pilot ASEL to Private Pilot Glider

Post by 3Dreaming »

AviatorCrafty wrote: Thanks! Also if I ever got my commercial certificate in gliders just out of curiosity what could one do with that besides getting the glider CFI, only thing I could think of would be ferrying motor gliders or normal gliders. Also can someone with a PPG fly at night? VFR on top? Not necessarily a good idea but I haven't seen any regs prohibiting them since you are a private pilot after all.
Rides is another commercial activity. As far as I know flight at night and VFR on top is just as you stated, permissible but not recommended. I think I have only seen one glider with nav lights. Without nav lights you need to be on the ground by sunset.
Post Reply