Sport Pilot Talk

Yesterday I went on a short cross country flight to get a $100 hamburger, or sandwich in this case, and I guess it wasn't my day for landings since when I touched down at the field I had a bounce, which seemed odd at first but I kept the back pressure in and it settled down and I got it to stop and taxied in without further incident. At first, I figured that I somehow flared too much and left it that that, but when it came time to return I ended up with another bounced landing at my home field and went around this time. I came around for another landing and had a skip on the last one but got it down and back to the ramp just fine. I took some time to debrief to find the cause of the bounces and at first, I came to the conclusion I just somehow flared too much and let it sink, but upon further analysis, both fields had something in common, light and variable winds, as well as trees/buildings in the vicinity of the runway. I'd always thought "light and variable" as oh well it's 4 knots, what can 4 knots do? Upon further research, I found that light and variable can be a challenge just like crosswinds, a constant shift in the winds can easily take the wind off your nose and cause you to sink a little so I think that's unfortunately what happened to me. Anyone else have a similar experience?

When I think of a bounced landing I think of coming in with too much energy and the plane is able to bounce off of the ground and back into the air. This is especially a problem if it causes you to enter a repetitive cycle or PIO that leads to loss of control or damage. Do you think that you could have been coming in too fast and not allowing the excess speed to bleed off before touchdown?

Dave C wrote:When I think of a bounced landing I think of coming in with too much energy and the plane is able to bounce off of the ground and back into the air. This is especially a problem if it causes you to enter a repetitive cycle or PIO that leads to loss of control or damage. Do you think that you could have been coming in too fast and not allowing the excess speed to bleed off before touchdown?

Could have been possible, the mechanical turbulence was rocking me a bit so I may have picked up a tad bit of speed and just didn't realize it.

Funny you mention that .. just today I had my first bounced landing in a long while and what's worse I didn't just bounce on the mains but ended up bouncing pretty flat.
I actually got distracted by a tiny bird and , in my case, after the initial flare ( to stop the descent) I didn't follow up quick enough with the actual flare and ended up going pretty flat.
Since it wasn't that terrible, all it took was a tiny shoot of power to get it back under control and settle down but still .. hate it when it happens.

Since I pretty much automatically record all my landings - here is the video.

https://youtu.be/Ja2sNzimLBE

Warmi wrote:Funny you mention that .. just today I had my first bounced landing in a long while and what's worse I didn't just bounce on the mains but ended up bouncing pretty flat.
I actually got distracted by a tiny bird and , in my case, after the initial flare ( to stop the descent) I didn't follow up quick enough with the actual flare and ended up going pretty flat.
Since it wasn't that terrible, all it took was a tiny shoot of power to get it back under control and settle down but still .. hate it when it happens.

Since I pretty much automatically record all my landings - here is the video.

https://youtu.be/Ja2sNzimLBE

How you recovered is how I did it too, give it a smidge of power and let it settle, I always tell myself "everyone has their moments with bad landings, in the end all that got hurt was your ego and you can use the plane again and you're safe"

AviatorCrafty wrote:

Warmi wrote:Funny you mention that .. just today I had my first bounced landing in a long while and what's worse I didn't just bounce on the mains but ended up bouncing pretty flat.
I actually got distracted by a tiny bird and , in my case, after the initial flare ( to stop the descent) I didn't follow up quick enough with the actual flare and ended up going pretty flat.
Since it wasn't that terrible, all it took was a tiny shoot of power to get it back under control and settle down but still .. hate it when it happens.

Since I pretty much automatically record all my landings - here is the video.

https://youtu.be/Ja2sNzimLBE

How you recovered is how I did it too, give it a smidge of power and let it settle, I always tell myself "everyone has their moments with bad landings, in the end all that got hurt was your ego and you can use the plane again and you're safe"

Hard landings do put stress on the landing gears which can be extra bad for composite designs.

fatsportpilot wrote:

AviatorCrafty wrote:

Warmi wrote:Funny you mention that .. just today I had my first bounced landing in a long while and what's worse I didn't just bounce on the mains but ended up bouncing pretty flat.
I actually got distracted by a tiny bird and , in my case, after the initial flare ( to stop the descent) I didn't follow up quick enough with the actual flare and ended up going pretty flat.
Since it wasn't that terrible, all it took was a tiny shoot of power to get it back under control and settle down but still .. hate it when it happens.

Since I pretty much automatically record all my landings - here is the video.

https://youtu.be/Ja2sNzimLBE

How you recovered is how I did it too, give it a smidge of power and let it settle, I always tell myself "everyone has their moments with bad landings, in the end all that got hurt was your ego and you can use the plane again and you're safe"

Hard landings do put stress on the landing gears which can be extra bad for composite designs.

Yeah especially on light sports, you have to be careful on those.

I agree with Dave C, a bounce usually happens because you touch down too fast and the airplane is not finished flying.

Gusty winds (and my lack of experience in the type) contributed to the bounce that caused a damaged wing rib. Many lessons learned, including avoiding “get-home-itis!”

Here’s the damage: https://youtu.be/rej2-EuoeBY

Forgot I made this thread, I recently went flying a few days ago and made a few discoveries, I was flying a few knots too fast, wasn't flaring enough, and wasn't picking an aiming point as I used to. Went flying and as I approached I checked my speed, made sure I was aiming for the second runway stripe as I always had, and when the numbers went under my cowling I transitioned to looking at the end of the runway. I held the nose up while using peripheral to see the runway rising below and holding it off from it, ended up with a pretty good touchdown both times, no bounces like what was originally happening.

AviatorCrafty wrote:Forgot I made this thread, I recently went flying a few days ago and made a few discoveries, I was flying a few knots too fast, wasn't flaring enough, and wasn't picking an aiming point as I used to. Went flying and as I approached I checked my speed, made sure I was aiming for the second runway stripe as I always had, and when the numbers went under my cowling I transitioned to looking at the end of the runway. I held the nose up while using peripheral to see the runway rising below and holding it off from it, ended up with a pretty good touchdown both times, no bounces like what was originally happening.

That has happened to me a few times, where something that used to work well for me in my flying/landing suddenly doesn't. Going back to the fundamentals usually solves it. Good job!

BTW, what type of airplane are you flying?

MrMorden wrote:

AviatorCrafty wrote:Forgot I made this thread, I recently went flying a few days ago and made a few discoveries, I was flying a few knots too fast, wasn't flaring enough, and wasn't picking an aiming point as I used to. Went flying and as I approached I checked my speed, made sure I was aiming for the second runway stripe as I always had, and when the numbers went under my cowling I transitioned to looking at the end of the runway. I held the nose up while using peripheral to see the runway rising below and holding it off from it, ended up with a pretty good touchdown both times, no bounces like what was originally happening.

That has happened to me a few times, where something that used to work well for me in my flying/landing suddenly doesn't. Going back to the fundamentals usually solves it. Good job!

BTW, what type of airplane are you flying?

In this case I was flying the Tecnam P2002 (low wing), although I was flying the Tecnam P92 (high wing) when I discovered something wasn't working for me. My first outing to try to fix my landings I flew the P2002 and had the same issues so I knew it was me and not the plane. Besides the sight picture/handling is the same in both planes, just the main difference is the placement of the wings.

AviatorCrafty wrote:

MrMorden wrote:

AviatorCrafty wrote:Forgot I made this thread, I recently went flying a few days ago and made a few discoveries, I was flying a few knots too fast, wasn't flaring enough, and wasn't picking an aiming point as I used to. Went flying and as I approached I checked my speed, made sure I was aiming for the second runway stripe as I always had, and when the numbers went under my cowling I transitioned to looking at the end of the runway. I held the nose up while using peripheral to see the runway rising below and holding it off from it, ended up with a pretty good touchdown both times, no bounces like what was originally happening.

That has happened to me a few times, where something that used to work well for me in my flying/landing suddenly doesn't. Going back to the fundamentals usually solves it. Good job!

BTW, what type of airplane are you flying?

In this case I was flying the Tecnam P2002 (low wing), although I was flying the Tecnam P92 (high wing) when I discovered something wasn't working for me. My first outing to try to fix my landings I flew the P2002 and had the same issues so I knew it was me and not the plane. Besides the sight picture/handling is the same in both planes, just the main difference is the placement of the wings.

When I moved from Remos GX ( high wing ) to low wings ( when I was looking for a plane to buy ) and finally to my Sting ( a low wing ) , I found low wings to be easier to land - I like the feel of more pronounced ground effect , it almost feels like a more firm “air cushion” which translates for me to more steep descents with a bit less energy “in the bank”.

Too much speed and energy on touchdown is the typical bounce scenario. I was taught old school, seldom flew aircraft with flaps, and always came in hot to make the runway if the engine failed (had 5 in my 50+ years of flying). I would typically turn final then slip the aircraft down to 15-20 feet off the ground, straighten out usually about 5 MPH above stall and about 8 degree angle of attack, and let the bird settle in for a smooth landing. Haven’t bounced an aircraft since the 60’s. Have used the same technique from J-2’s to C182’s.
VR....Don