What are sport pilots actaully flying?

[rsteele]

Other than CharlieTango, CTFlyer and CubFlyer, who's handles pretty much discribe what they fly, I haven't seen a lot of postings about what people fly. Hopefully we have more than three actuall sport pilots reading this forum. Seems like I remember an Allegro or two
So the question is what do you fly? Own? Rent? Happy with your usuall ride?

Personlly I'm building a Zenith CH601XL and it looks like I'll be taking lessons at Chesapeak Sport Pilot at Bay Bridge Airport, MD. They have a Tecnam Super Echo that BARELY fits me. I haven't flown it yet, just sat in it. It'll be a couple of weeks befor I know for sure. I'd say anybody under 6'6" would fit this plane easily unless he has very long legs or very long trunk.

Ron

[ka7eej]

Ron,
Good question!! It would also be interesting to see who started as a Sport Pilot and who is now flying Sport Pilot having let their medical expire.
My story is this. I am 56 years old, never have flown untill now. Last year I found out about Sport Pilot and because of fear of not being able to get a medical jumped at the chance to fly. I took 5 hours of lessons in an Allegro 2000 at Falcon Executive Aviation in Mesa, Az ( 3 hours from where I llive). I then came across a deal on a 2006 Allegro that I could not pass up. MY CFI and I flew to North Carolina to pick it up and fly it back to Mesa, Az. That was a blast.. I left my plane in Mesa for 8 months and tried to train there as often as time would allow. Because of the time gaps between training and me being old and hard to train and the extra time I think it takes to land an Allegro I now have flown my plane the 120 miles home ( Cross country signed off by my instructor). I am now going to the local CFI who has never been in a Light Sport Airplane before but is looking forward to me teaching him how to fly it HA HA so he can sign me off to solo (again with the new instructor & airport) so I can fly every day to get just a little more skill before he signs me off for my checkride. I love the Allegro 2000, 100 hp with a Dynon EFIS. I feel I got a great buy getting it with 110 hours, for way less that the low price of $75,000 that it was new less than one year ago. Sure it was about the same price as a 30 year old 172 but I have a new airplane that will fly for 3+ hours, burn 3.5 gals per hour at over 100 mph.. This is a real story from a real pilot flying a real SLSA......Let's hear some more!!!!!

[Hydroguy2]

I guess I'm not a "sportpilot" as I have my PPL. But have pretended to be a SP many times. I helped build a Rans S-6, see the Utah Fly-in post. I will certainly be helping to build a Rans S-19 in the coming months, see the S-19 Pirep post.

Our trip could have been completed by a "sportpilot" EXCEPT on the return trip we climbed to 10,500' to minimize some turbulence and utilize the tailwind. Crossing the Rocks during the wind is best done from above. climbing out of Provo Utah, I was at 80mph, but the groundspeed through ProvoCanyon was 125mph. We knew we were probably in for a rough time. Can you say Severe Turb? It was a tense few minutes in a 711# LSA. But we kept it rightside up and after a little house cleaning we restowed the charts, radios, coffee, pens, etc and were enjoying a 25mph tailwind component after we pointed it North. The trip 8U8-IDA-LGU-PVU down took about 5.3hrs Hobbs and 2 fuel stops(1 due to overnighting). We were able to do the return trip in 4hrs flying time(1 fuel at IDA) due to the push we received. The S-6 is not a very good long XC ship, but works in a pinch and was a blast. Equipped with the baby tundra tires, it makes a better short hauler to the Backcountry.

[vwvectors]

Actually rsteele before the crash this wuz a very active site . Give it time people will come back .

[CTflyer]

Well, just to be up front about things ...

CTflyer = Connecticut flier. Started PPL lessons back in 2005 but ran out of funds and patience at 35 hours. Ten thousand bucks for a PPL - ridiculous but no other choices in the area. FBO's kept raising rates, changing rules, and losing cfi's. My first CFI was fired for showing off (stupid flying stunts), second one left for a regional jet job, and third was almost killed in a crash and gave up flying. All within one year. Absolutely no LSA rental planes within 3 hours of me. Can't afford to buy or build. No one in the area interested in sharing ownership.

Folks that can afford to build or buy - man I envy you. Folks that live near sport pilot training - ditto. Affordable flying for the "average Joe" - well, that's been argued to death here long ago.

So I'm on long-term hold. Trikes or PPC's aren't for me. Ercoupe, Rans, Cub were more my style. Still ticked off that sport pilots are limited to flying only light sport planes. Imagine if we could fly standard trainers with a sport license ... but 'fraid not. And it turns out that the whole sport pilot program was created 10 years ago and sold to the FAA just to get ultralight pilots under FAA control. Oy.

So if I win PowerBall or MegaBucks, I'll spring for a J-3 and finish the ticket. But 'til then, I'm back to staring at the clouds from down below.

There's a heck of a lot of wonderful light sport planes, but methinks they're mostly flown by full PPL pilots. Excellent discussions of new planes; rare mentions of sport pilot training.

Tom

[artp]

I am a 64 year old instrument rated commercial pilot. After I sold my Cirrus in 2004, I stopped flying. I just move near an airport (FME) so I bought a hangar, got a BFR, a 2nd class medical, and started looking for a plane. I eventually rejected Cirrus, Diamond, and Cessna. I decided on a CT (at the dealer but it is not ready for delivery yet). I decided on a light sport because its costs less to buy, less to operate, will use lead free fuel, will allow me to let my medical lapse, and after a 3 week course will allow me to do my own maintenance and inspections.

[Cub flyer]

Locally here some interesting things have happened.

Most of the converting ultralight guys (2) have finished up and gone back to their ELSA converted ultralights.

The younger crowd less than 60 (4) that initally came for sport pilot training has gone on to private ratings or finished their sport pilot ratings. About 1/2 of them became private pilots

(2) private glider pilots became sport pilots with the maze of sign offs.

The old bold guys (5) who got back into flying because no medical needed are all still going and none have gone for their checkrides. Some have done the writtens. .

The ones that had recent (last 20 years) private tickets are flying fine.

The new old students are the tough ones (8-10) They have the money and time but the skills take a while. average 25 to 35 hours before calm wind solo. None have made it to the check ride yet.

Several new students with minor medial conditions are progressing nicely and will make good sport pilots. They are airplane shopping and some have bought two cubs, two vagabonds, one taylorcraft and the other is looking for a champ.

I've had a lot of guys show up where the last log entery was 1965 or similar.

The medical was a way to weed some of these students out before having to sit through hours of bashing around the pattern. Most are so large an overweight I am worried about the seat structure. If you can't walk to the airplane without being out of breath it won't work at altitude or a stressful situation. A lot just don't have it anymore.

My airplane has no electrics, no flaps, no dg or horizon, one fuel tank and only elevator trim. Yes it is a taildragger but a very, very easy one with properly setup gear and tailwheel. I can't imagine teaching these folks in a glass rocket or even an airplane with excess power and flaps. The cub takes no rudder input on takeoff and it's a wrestling match.

Differential brakes with no nosewheel steering forget it..

As a flight instructor you cannot refuse to teach anyone. Legally you are a government rep and it is discrimination.

As for new airplanes

One private pilot bought a new CT.

I bought a new X air H kit.

The general consensus around here is if you have a minor medical problem go sport pilot to start out. If you are getting older as a private pilot and want to just fly for fun go sport pilot.

Everything else I say stay private pilot. Cheaper airplanes, more flexability, easier to get parts, maintenance, longer TBO engines, less airworthiness surprises, easier insurance. airplane might be ok tied outside for a while.

Owner maintenance is great but I have seen a lot of it over the years. The 912 is very intolerant of any mistakes or mis treatment. Composites are the future but do not show damage like conventional construction. TSO and non TSO parts are very different. How can Wag Aero sell two grades of tail brace wires for a Cub. I have seen both and there is a difference. My attitude is I die if it breaks so lets get the best wires. A lot of the LSA and experimental market is getting the lower grade equipment.

The little continentals and metal are much more forgiving.

Most certified 4 place airplanes are needed to fly these very large people with a legal useful load.

Not to discourage anyone. By all means go try it but take a step back first and think if you are really up to this. Can you drive ok and can you walk to the mailbox and back without stopping. Can you see your shoes? If yes then you'll probably be great.

[CTflyer]

Cub flyer - that is *really* interesting. Thanks for that real-world view. As always, I sure wish I lived in your neck o' the woods. I'd likely be a pilot by now.

Question for you: could you explain a little more about that sentence "The cub takes no rudder input on takeoff and it's a wrestling match. " Are you saying it's hard to control in flight?

I'd give up my left ... err ... little finger to fly a Cub, I think.

We share some mutual thoughts about the new planes. Lots of shine for lots of bucks. Great if you want them and can afford them. And excellent new technology. But I sure enjoy driving my 1959 Triumph TR3 more than driving my neighbor's 2007 Alfa Romeo Spider. "iron vs. plastic"

I can wrench a Triumph, but I'd need a computer to work on the Spider. Last week neighbor said he got random characters on the Spider's digital gauges; dealership said he'd need to replace the entire dashboard - for $7000.

Tom

[Cub flyer]

the main trouble with the cub is everyone flies it like the pilots in the movie Airplane. Two hands on the stick and pushing hard on both rudder pedals at the same time. Yanking to take off. They are overflying the airplane

Once I can finally convince them it knows more about flying around the pattern than they do they loosen up.

You add power and slight forward stick. When the stick is loose in you hands it is ready to fly. A gentle pull and it flies away. That is the last time you need to touch the stick until the flare to land. Very gentle rudder pressures and a little trim will fly it around the pattern nicely.

Most students are un learning years of driving experiance and try to steer with the stick when taking off.

Most push the rudder the wrong way like a flexible flyer sled.

The biggest problems come when one of the giants 6ft 5 350 lbs locks up on one brake and full rudder. I am pushing the opposite rudder and brake and the poor airplane is hopping up and down down the runway with both wheels locked. Or they are setup to land nicely but floating a little and suddenly push full down to get it on the ground sooner.

I weigh 165-170 and I am wondering how strong the rudder horn is.

The cub has a real good landing gear.

Another problem is how do these great big people get on the wing of a low wing LSA without it falling on its tail? I see wrinkles in the fabric when they sit on the cub door sill.

Sad to say but 2 out of 10 SP students are not overweight. (190+)

Useful load will be the name of the game. Most examiners are not light either.

Can lightweight construction stand up to this treatment?

[vwvectors]

I think lightweight may not fair well in the long term . That's why they should raise the gross weight to 1430 for fixed wing & amphibs shouls go to 1760 lbs ( 800kg ) It is a small moderate weight increase the will make a world of difference . When the rules were being divised they underscored how big Americans really are . These margins should increase safety . I did hear a rumor that the final weights they went with were because aircraft oem's did'nt want competition from their certified products .

P.S. The max alt should be increased to 12.5 ft this will also greatly increase safety esp out over the Rockies .

[Paul Hamilton]

After having booths at the Major airshors with banners for Light sport aircraft and sport pilot training I have sen so many different types of pilot and aircraft slowly embracing this new sport pilot/LSA rule.

From the baby boomers now being able to afford an airplane starting out, to the private pilot who has not flown in 20 years wanting to get back into it, to our armed services heros worried about their medicals, this is a new surge to aviation.

We also have the ultralight pilots forced to "get a real pilots license" and fit into the "big brother regulated" airspace.

The new catagories are an interesting add to the mix.





The trike (or Weight-shift control as the FAA calls it) and the Powered parachute are the new catagories of aircraft which are also booming because of a couple of reasons.

Both are portable, and can easily be stored and easily taken on the road with you. They are simple to fly. Some of the new trikes with big engines and small wings cruise at 80 knots.

There is a new world out there with modern airplanes and new ways to fly.

best,
Paul

[rsteele]

Most students are un learning years of driving experiance and try to steer with the stick when taking off.

Most push the rudder the wrong way like a flexible flyer sled.

The biggest problems come when one of the giants 6ft 5 350 lbs lot

Hey, I resemble that remark. I actually went and bought a set of rudder pedals to use with Flight Simulator just because I couldn't get around the Flexible Flyer syndrom. Now, it's no problem. Funny how many times you can run a virtual airplane off the runway without damage to the plane or wallet.. I'd recommend this for any hightime driver/notime flyer. They go for about $100 on Amazon and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than burning gas at the airport.

I'm also really big, And it's a problem in any airplane, But the LSA limits make it a real challenge. I'm confident that I'll be comfortable and safe in the plane I'm building, but traing is just plain tough.
I'm not all that out of shape though. I'd be glad to race you down the runway.

Maybe you should set up a gym in the hanger. Package deal, free gym time with flight time.

[flynful]

Well, I came to flying rather late. I am 65 and, after about 100 hours of training for my PPL, have scheduled my checkride for the next week or so. I thought it a good idea to buy my own plane, so with all of a half hour demo under my belt bought a very, very clean 1966 Cherokee PA-28 140/160 with less than 2500 TT on the airframe and less than 500 SMOH on the engine and prop. My girlfriend is also taking lessons in the Cherokee and has over 40 hours in, so I think the purchase of the Cherokee will more than pay for itself by the time we both get our PPCs.

Now, the Flynful in me comes out, as even though I have not as yet gotten my PPC, I put a downpayment on a new CZAW SportCruiser. Saw it, got a demo ride, fell in love and was a goner. I hope to take delivery in January. Dynon PFD and EMS, autopilot, and garmin radios and 496, with weather terrain and traffic. Can't wait.....

My instructor loves the Cherokee and wants to buy it when I take delivery of the SC. I'm sort of ambivalent about selling, as it it easy to fly and fun to land. I could have just as easily called myself "landnful" as "flynful"as I have almost 400 landings, too. But I will most likely sell it as I don't need the hassle and costs of 2 planes.

I am going LSA for several reasons. One is getting a new plane at reasonable cost and getting an avionics package that I want. Just try to redo the panel in the Cherokee and you run into problems with STCs and cost, even if the change makes the plane safer. I also worry about my health and whether I will be able to pass the 2-year medical in a few more years. As long as i keep my PPC I can fly the SC anywhere and without the usual SP limitations (night, 10,000', etc.). When I can't I limit my flying to SP rules.

[Cub flyer]

I've been wanting to try flying a Powered Parachute and trike for a while. The right combination of demo pilot and machine has not presented itself yet but I'm waiting.

My dream would be a SP legal hot air airship. That and glider aerobatics.

As for flying fixed wing the medical seems to be the selling point of Sport pilot. I don't see any other advantages.

The SP legal airplanes can be operated by private pilots until they decide not to renew their medicals so there is no reason to not buy new if it is what fits.

A new airplane is nice. A clean older airplane is nice also. I've been watching the Aspen avionics Evolution Glass Horizon and DG. $6000 is a bargin. I'm waiting to see what the install prices are but it looks like a nice upgrade for the older airplanes.

Approach systems fast stack is great for upgrading radio wiring and the radio Rax tray system. Once an older airplane is converted to these items and an alternator the panel can be upgraded many times without going through major rewiring or cutting.

I think the better way for FAA to develope sport pilot would have been to limit the airplanes to fixed gear fixed pitch prop less than 2500 lbs. Max 180 hp. 2 occupants, Utility category CG limits if shown in the flight manual or 30% of the aft CG travel. Most of the light airplanes have some kind of limits like this in the flight manual right now. You can fly to higher limits based on utility cagegory limits. Why not use these for sport pilot limits. The CG, loading and flight test limits are already known.

Then someone who has flown the same type for 30 yearas could keep flying their airplane with some limitations. A lot safer than transitioning into a new unfamiliar type.

As for the limits being to sell new airplanes look who was on the first board and wrote the rules.

I've been thinking hard about buying a good simulator. Then doing all the training on it until someone is really proficient. They would start flying after that and should be able to finish in the minimum hours. A lot less wear and tear on me, the airplane, train rain or shine, cheaper per hour rate, train at any airport or any conditions. It is not legal to log but who cares. It makes better pilots quicker and cheaper.

[FK9Skyline]

Back on the forums again! What a shame....why would anyone want to mess around with a forum about light planes? As to what i fly...for about 9/10 years now i've flown the Drifter on floats love that bird to death, i've flown it with a 50 hp rotax two stroke 503 and now fly the 912 S, have about 7,800 hours teaching in them. I got to fly in a 39' j-3 cub and i can say the Drifter is not a open cockpit...more "open body" version of the cub similar speeds/handling, only difference coming from the 18 wires so it bleeds airspeed quick. When im not out on the water i'm flying the Fk 9 Mk IV, it simply inspires confidence to fly it, hence the reason why we choose to represent it in the states, i dont have as many hours on it as i would like as of yet, however we're going to have one on floats for instruction in about a month as one of our students is going to place it on a suedo lease back. Both offer something special when flown.