The Sport Pilot Rating

Finally, a place for sport pilot instructors and/or wannabees to talk about instructing.

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TimTaylor
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:25 pm

Why don't you just pay a CFI to instruct her for her Private in your airplane?
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
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BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

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bryancobb
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby bryancobb » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:34 pm

drseti wrote:Although the hours can count for higher ratings, the privileges allowed a Subpart K CFI are limited (elsewhere in the regs) to instruction given solely in an LSA. So, it's that restriction which you'll be needing to get waived. I honestly don't know how likely that is.


You are precisely correct. All they can do is say "no." The premise of my request has the following elements:

* A Tomahawk is a simple, slow, primary trainer that is somewhat close to being a Light Sport airplane.
* I am not asking to train but ONE student, my daughter.
( ) = Tomahawk

1320# vs (1670#)
120KCAS vs (115KCAS)
45KCAS vs (52KCAS no flaps)
2 Seats vs (2 Seats)
1 Eng Fixed Prop vs (1 Eng Fixed Prop)
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

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bryancobb
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby bryancobb » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:40 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Why don't you just pay a CFI to instruct her for her Private in your airplane?


Because the personal gratification for the rest of her life and mine, knowing she will always be able to say..."My Daddy taught me to fly.
I solo'd on my 16th birthday and took my checkride on my 17th birthday."

It appears, she will be in an Aviation/Aerospace career and I think it would be great for her to be able to say this.

If the FAA won't allow it, then your idea will be Plan "B."
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

3Dreaming
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:08 pm

bryancobb wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
bryancobb wrote:
I just bought a Lycoming-Powered Piper Tomahawk that has always had a current annual. I got it for less than $20,000 and am currently trying to get the FAA to approve a LODA for me to teach ONE STUDENT (my 15 year old daughter) to fly toward her Private Ticket in it with my SPORT CFI rating. I realize a Subpart H CFI will need to train her on PTS tasks that are not in the Sport PTS but are in the Private Pilot PTS. That instructor will do her last 3 hours of checkride prep.


Even if they allow you to provide the training in the Tomahawk, the training time from you as a sport CFI will not count towards her private pilot certificate unless she gets her sport pilot rating first.


Show me the reg.

NOWHERE IN THE REGS IS IT INDICATED THAT A SPORT PILOT LICENSE MUST BE THE GOAL OF THE STUDENT! NOWHERE IN THE REGS DOES IT SAY THAT TO COUNT THE FLIGHT TRAINING AND AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE, THE STUDENT MUST HAVE WANTED AND BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT GETTING A SPORT PILOT RATING.

The FEDERAL REGISTER interpretations and clarifications emphasizes the "TITLE OF THE RULING" and says "On May 12, 2016, the FAA published a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) titled “Regulatory Relief: Aviation Training Devices; Pilot Certification, Training, and Pilot Schools; and Other Provisions.

"Section 61.99 is revised to allow flight training received from a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating who does not also hold a flight instructor certificate issued under the requirements in subpart H of part 61 to be credited toward the flight training and aeronautical experience requirements for a recreational pilot certificate with airplane or rotorcraft categories."

"Section 61.109 is revised by adding paragraph (l) to allow flight training received from a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating who does not also hold a flight instructor certificate issued under the requirements in subpart H of part 61 to be credited toward the flight training and aeronautical experience requirements for a private pilot certificate with airplane, rotorcraft, or lighter-than-air categories."


Copied and pasted from the regulations.
61.109
(l) Permitted credit for flight training received from a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating. The holder of a sport pilot certificate may credit flight training received from a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating toward the aeronautical experience requirements of this section if the following conditions are met:

If you do not hold a sport pilot certificate, then the instruction time from a sport pilot instructor can not be used to meet the training requirements of the private pilot certificate.

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bryancobb
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby bryancobb » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:32 pm

Well...I guess you are right.

The final wording does not resemble what the very thorough discussion on The Federal Register website.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

TimTaylor
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:46 pm

My experience flying for over 55 years is it's best to try and follow the rules precisely. With an activity as regulated as flying and flight instruction, trying to make exceptions is probably more trouble than it's worth. Any kid who earns a Private Pilot certificate while still in high school has plenty to be proud of. I know, I did it. Soloed at 16, Private at 17, Commercial at 18, CFI at 19.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

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drseti
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby drseti » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:53 pm

Sounds like an altogether reasonable request, Bryan. Too bad you're making it of a typically unreasonable government agency. :(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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bryancobb
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby bryancobb » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:49 am

In my experience, the FAA as a whole, has always been reasonable in my dealings with them.

When I had to replace a bad exhaust valve in my IVO-360-A1A in my Brantly helicopter, my engine guy found that the engine crankcase was the correct item but in 1969, cylinders with the wrong part number were installed. Even though these "nitrided-bore" jugs had been chromed so they were practically identical to the OEM chrome ones, they were still WRONG. The MIDO allowed the deviation from conformity based on the fact that the engine had been flown more than 1000 hours with the wrong cylinders with no problems. They signed the 337 and asked me to stamp a suffix letter on the dataplate.

Pretty reasonable, right?

I admit the FAA Lawyer's letter disallowing Sport CFI hours toward higher ratings was UN reasonable.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

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drseti
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby drseti » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:06 am

Bryan, in my experience most district personnel are quite reasonable. FAA Legal is often not. So, if your issue can be resolved at the FSDO (or GADO, or MIDO) level, you have a fighting chance. If they have to kick it upstairs, all bets are off.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Otto
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Re: The Sport Pilot Rating

Postby Otto » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:05 am

I teach my daughter some flights and also have her fly with other instructors. Teenagers have 10+ years of intensive practice ignoring their parents. Doesn't matter how smart we are. Definitely fly with her, even if you don't do the instructing. I do hope it works out and you get the green light.


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