CFI-S Flight review

[malexander]

I'm sure I read somewhere in these forums that a CFI-S is permitted to flight reviews for PPL holders.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've been searching, but can't seem to find it now.

[drseti]

No. Per FAR 61 Subpart K:

§ 61.413 What are the privileges of my flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating?

(a) If you hold a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating, you are authorized, within the limits of your certificate and rating, to provide training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to -

[Snip]

(6) A flight review or operating privilege for a sport pilot;

(Emphasis added)

[AviatorCrafty]

Now as someone hoping to pursue the CFI-S rating one day, I've never been able to tell from that snippet of the regulation if that also allows sport CFIs to give instruction to someone who holds a private pilot certificate but is operating under sport pilot rules, or someone who holds a private pilot certificate and is lapsed from a flight review, but wishes to get back into flying and plans to operate under the sport pilot rules. Also could a sport CFI do a renter checkout in an LSA type flight to a private pilot holder?

[drseti]

Neither renter checkouts in an aircraft, nor LSAtransition training for a private pilot, are "required for, and relate to" any FAA rating or privilege. Therefore, as far as the FAA is concerned, they can be performed by anybody who is able to be PIC (that person does not even have to be a CFI).

Of course, one's insurance company may require a checkout from a CFI to satisfy insurance requirements, but that is not an FAA requirement at all, because insurance is not an "operating privilege."

Flight reviews, OTOH, are an FAA requirement to maintain pilot privileges, so the FARs apply. And this one says that a Subpart K CFI can give flight reviews only to Sport Pilots.

[AviatorCrafty]

Neither renter checkouts in an aircraft, nor LSAtransition training for a private pilot, are "required for, and relate to" any FAA rating or privilege. Therefore, as far as the FAA is concerned, they can be performed by anybody who is able to be PIC (that person does not even have to be a CFI).

Of course, one's insurance company may require a checkout from a CFI to satisfy insurance requirements, but that is not an FAA requirement at all, because insurance is not an "operating privilege."

Flight reviews, OTOH, are an FAA requirement to maintain pilot privileges, so the FARs apply. And this one says that a Subpart K CFI can give flight reviews only to Sport Pilots.

Yeah the situations where a CFI-S can give dual seem very limited, mostly to certificated sport pilots or student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate. For example if I was a CFI-S and I wanted to take up a private pilot friend and taught them some things in my LSA I couldn't just let them log the dual?

[drseti]

If I was a CFI-S and I wanted to take up a private pilot friend and taught them some things in my LSA I couldn't just let them log the dual?

No, your friend could not log the flight as Dual Instruction Received. Neither could you log it as Instruction Given. Which doesn't mean that both of you couldn't enjoy (and learn something from) the flight, just that it couldn't be logged as an instructional flight.

[malexander]

Thank you for the clarification Paul.

[comperini]

Whoah! Yes, a CFI-S *CAN* give a flight review to a private pilot, as long as it's done in an LSA. Remember, private pilots DO have sport pilot privileges already.

This was answered years ago by AFS-610. Here's their comment:

Can a subpart-K flight instructor (sport pilot instructor) give a private pilot a flight review? Does the private pilot still need to get another flight review to exercise private pilot privileges?

As long as the flight review is performed in a light sport aircraft, yes the sport pilot instructor can administer the flight review. Since private pilots already hold sport pilot privileges, and since 14 CFR 61.56 only requires a flight review be "given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated", the one flight review will satisfy the requirement. (Jay Tevis, AFS-610, 04/25/2011)

[drseti]

That's great, Bob (and I'm sure a Letter of Interpretation from AFS-610 is legally binding). Unfortunately, it contradicts the FAR, which should really have been amended - but I wouldn't hold your breath for that.

[comperini]

That's great, Bob (and I'm sure a Letter of Interpretation from AFS-610 is legally binding). Unfortunately, it contradicts the FAR, which should really have been amended - but I wouldn't hold your breath for that.

Yea yea yea, I know, you'll point to 61.413. Doesn't a private pilot already have sport pilot privileges (basically he "is" a sport pilot)?

Ok, Why don't you phone them yourself? Let us all know what you find out.

[drseti]

Yea yea yea, I know, you'll point to 61.413. Doesn't a private pilot already have sport pilot privileges (basically he "is" a sport pilot)?

The question is not about the privileges of the pilot (of course every PP, CP, or ATP automatically has SP privileges). Rather, the issue is the privileges of the instructor. Clearly, AFS 610's interpretation contradicts 61.413, so the FAR should have been updated. (Yeah, as I said, don't hold your breath for that!)

[comperini]

So call them and get the real answer

[drseti]

So call them and get the real answer

No need to, Bob. Somebody already did, 11 years ago, and the quoted Letter of Interpretation (which I rather like) is the real answer. I'm just pointing out that the FARs don't always agree with the rules.

BTW, the only reason to call AFS-610, the FAA Light Sport Certification branch in Oklahoma City (or FAA Legal) for an interpretation is if you are prepared to accept whatever answer they give. If I called now, I'm pretty sure I'd get a different person from the author of that interpretation. That new person might well have a different opinion, which you and I might not like. Repeat requests for interpretation are how we end up with dueling opinions. No reason at all to open up that can of worms!

[comperini]

So call them and get the real answer

No need to, Bob. Somebody already did, 11 years ago, and the quoted Letter of Interpretation (which I rather like) is the real answer. I'm just pointing out that the FARs don't always agree with the rules.

Ok, so post that letter. I havent seen it

Here's where all those letters are kept... I couldn't find anything: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... retations/

[comperini]

In this thread:

https://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.ph ... view#p8120

You did agree that a flight review could be done by any instructor. Where's this FAA interpretation letter that says differently?

Can't imagine why not. A flight review is a flight review. Nowhere in the FARs does it say what kind of flight instructor you need to take one from. Only real limitation on the CFI-SP is the restriction on the kind of aircraft he/she can instruct in. A private pilot or above, with a medical, is still free to take a flight review in an LSA, as long as it's the proper category and class. And, if it's taken in an LSA, clearly it can be signed off by an appropriately rated (i.e., LSA) flight instructor.

As a general rule, if the FARs don't explicitly prohibit something, isn't it allowed?