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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 am
by Warmi
$200 per month ??

With 6 members that comes down to almost $15 K per year in operating expenses ... what kind of RV 12 is that .. with a turbine :-) ?

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:03 pm
by drseti
Make sure you get a thorough prebuy, from someone who knows the RV12 and the Rotax engine. You might want to watch my webinar "How to Buy a Used LSA" at http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/prebuy.mp4.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:37 pm
by Otto
No connection. Just pointing out an LSA option
https://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?id=1492534
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:41 pm
by drseti
I notice that the logbook entry posted to Barnstormers shows an annual inspection from 2016. And, the compression numbers were all in the 60s. So, $10k to buy, and maybe another $10k to make it airworthy? Just sayin'...

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:15 am
by 3Dreaming
drseti wrote:I notice that the logbook entry posted to Barnstormers shows an annual inspection from 2016. And, the compression numbers were all in the 60s. So, $10k to buy, and maybe another $10k to make it airworthy? Just sayin'...


While I would like the compression numbers to be a little higher I personally would not condemn the engine based on those numbers alone. Personally unless you were going to try and restore it to factory original condition, I would buy a mid time Continental A-65 to replace the Lycoming.

Here is a picture of my old BL-65 Taylorcraft.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:22 am
by drseti
That was a beautiful aircraft, Tom.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:53 pm
by 3Dreaming
drseti wrote:That was a beautiful aircraft, Tom.


I spoke with the current owner at Oshkosh, and according to him it still is. He said people have a hard time believing the restoration is 25 years old. I hope to visit the old girl in a few weeks.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 pm
by Wm.Ince
3Dreaming wrote:I spoke with the current owner at Oshkosh, and according to him it still is. He said people have a hard time believing the restoration is 25 years old. I hope to visit the old girl in a few weeks.

Might that airplane be in your future?

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:19 am
by 3Dreaming
Wm.Ince wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:I spoke with the current owner at Oshkosh, and according to him it still is. He said people have a hard time believing the restoration is 25 years old. I hope to visit the old girl in a few weeks.

Might that airplane be in your future?


I don't think so. It has a good caretaker who really appreciates the airplane. Besides out family has a nice three generation Taylorcraft to fly. It is my dad's airplane, I did my CFI checkride in it almost 30 years ago, now I am teaching my two sons how to fly in it.

Now if I could find the right Taylorcraft project at the right time, I think I could build me a nice sport pilot training airplane. The airplane in that add would be a good start, but in my opinion the price is too high.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:13 pm
by HAPPYDAN
Warmi wrote:$200 per month ??

With 6 members that comes down to almost $15 K per year in operating expenses ... what kind of RV 12 is that .. with a turbine :-) ?

Our club planning is still in its infancy, so we don't really know what to expect yet. So, rather than come up short, we will probably estimate costs a little too high initially and adjust as reality sets in. But, the way it stands right now, if we can't find at least 2 more firm commitments, it may be dust in the wind. We really did like the plane. The owner flew it from Arlington to Bremerton so we could look it over. Certainly no obvious problems, but a thorough inspection by an expert is in the cards.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:50 am
by EyeInTheSky
You may want to change your business model a bit and have a two tiered approach that is more self sustaining:

Tier 1: Create a club where everyone owns a share in the aircraft and pays dues for the upkeep, hanger/office space. Have a membership board that reassesses the dues annually and determines if adjustments need to be made for increased costs or acquirement of additional aircraft. They would also be responsible for approving additional members and maintaining the organization's charter. When more members join, the costs for everyone can decrease from diffusion (if you want to set it up that way).

Tier 2: Create a program where student pilots can learn to fly (using CFI's from the membership base) and offer them an opportunity to purchase a share once they earn their license. This could attract new members and provide some sustainability for the future.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:03 am
by Sling 2 Pilot
Insurance for a Taylorcraft (tail wheel), in a club will, IMO, be over the top. Stick to the RV-12, it won’t hurt as much.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:41 am
by TimTaylor
I would stay away from student pilots and tailwheel aircraft.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:25 pm
by EyeInTheSky
Think about inclusion instead of exclusion. LSA is a niche market and to keep it sustainable, there needs to be a pathway for new people to learn. Convert that learning experience into loyalty in the form of memberships. True, it may cost more with insurance, but the dividends would outweigh the cost and last for a long time.

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:44 pm
by TimTaylor
No, they would not. Insurance for student training would probably be cost prohibitive. Also, a student might be more apt to have an accident taking the plane out of service for what could be an extended period of time. I don't believe a flying club is a place for students, not one that I would belong to. The same can be said for tailwheel aircraft. I would not want people in the club with little or no tailwheel experience.

If you're trying to start and maintain a flying club, it's not your job to protect the future of LSA. Your job is to create an affordable flying situation for a finite number of members.