Takeoffs and Landings in non-LSA towards passenger currency

[FastEddieB]

My brain hurts.

Don’t know if this helps or not, but the top two lines of the Airworthiness Certificate for my E-LSA Sky Arrow.

[drseti]

That's as it should be, Eddie. Since you converted to ELSA, your aircraft's category (for registration purposes) is indeed Experimental (operating Light Sport). Before, when it was an SLSA, your aircraft's category was probably Special (operating Light Sport), and that should be what it said on the Special Airworthiness Certificate . This is consistent with FAR 1.1.

[drseti]

20200507_152403.jpg (131.66 KiB) Viewed 29077 times

Here's another Special Airworthiness Certificate, this one from an SLSA. Note that the Category is Light-Sport, and the Class (here referred to as Purpose) is Weight-Shift-Control.

[drseti]

Paul, I don't think that Category should be Light Sport. I think it should be Airplane Single Engine Land/sea, Rotorcraft Gyroplane, Ect.

I don't really think it should be either, Tom. Nevertheless, if you look at the Airworthiness Certificates, you'll see that it is.

[3Dreaming]

Paul, I don't think that Category should be Light Sport. I think it should be Airplane Single Engine Land/sea, Rotorcraft Gyroplane, Ect.

I don't really think it should be either, Tom. Nevertheless, if you look at the Airworthiness Certificates, you'll see that it is.

When I said it shouldn't be it was in regards to what a sport pilot can fly. That is what I got from your post. For airworthiness certificate a sport pilot is certainly not limited to flying something in the light sport category. They can fly aircraft in the standard category, primary category, experimental category as well as the light sport category.

The light sport category as it is use in the regulations is just a way to issue an airworthiness certificate to a factory built light sport aircraft, that is not eligible to receive an airworthiness certificate in one of the other manners. Plus not be encumbered with the restrictions that go along with an experimental certificate.

So in conclusion what matters for a light sport aircraft is that it meets the CFR 1.1 definition, not how it was certified. Sport pilots are not restricted to light sport category. They can fly any category of aircraft regardless of how it was certified as long as it meet the definition.

[drseti]

what matters for a light sport aircraft is that it meets the CFR 1.1 definition, not how it was certified. Sport pilots are not restricted to light sport category. They can fly any category of aircraft regardless of how it was certified as long as it meet the definition.

I concur completely. Well said.

[Scooper]

My Zodiac Special Airworthiness Certificates before converting to experimental (S-LSA):

Special Airworthiness Cert N601KE S-LSA Category and Purpose.jpg (29.9 KiB) Viewed 29054 times

..and after (E-LSA):

Special Airworthiness Cert N601KE E-LSA Category and Purpose.jpg (37.49 KiB) Viewed 29054 times

[Sam]

It’s cheaper for me to fly with an instructor in a rented Cessna 150 then it is to fly solo in a rented LSA by two dollars which is crazy.

He has logged the time in my logbook as dual received and PIC.

Looking at the FARs, if they wanted to prevent sport pilots from logging PIC in non LSA aircraft they could have put a section like they did for when you can and can’t log time as a student pilot. I also see how this could be debated in either direction.

[drseti]

It’s cheaper for me to fly with an instructor in a rented Cessna 150 then it is to fly solo in a rented LSA by two dollars which is crazy.

Not so crazy when you consider that the very newest Cessna 150 is 44 years old, and the very oldest SLSA is 17. But age and sales price aside, the real driver for operating costs is insurance. For a 150 in rental or flight instruction service, a policy can be had for about $1000. The commercial policy for my SportStar currently sets me back $7500 a year, and that has to be amortized over flight hours, so...

He has logged the time in my logbook as dual received and PIC.

I believe that's only legal if you hold a Rec Pilot certificate or above, and a medical certificate (or Basic Med), and a current flight review. The operative FAR for PIC specifies "rated in" the associated aircraft. That said, if the CFI in question doesn't normally train Sport Pilots, it would not surprise me at all if he or she didn't know the SP rules.

[Murphy]

I can't cite an FAR on this, but I believe passenger currency TOLs have to be done as PIC. Since you can't be PIC in a non-LSA without a CFI onboard or a solo endorsement (which your friend can't give you as a lapsed CFI). So, the answer would be no.

Realized I may have added some confusion here, he is an active CFI, just hasn't held it for the required 24 months to count for CFI instruction. I also thought I couldn't log PIC while dual in a non-LSA.

I know this is an old post, but I would like to add some info for the record. A CFI does not need 24 months experience to teach a CFI-S candidate. 14 CFR § 61.413 (a) (3) gives a CFI-S privileges to train a CFI-S candidate with no 24 month requirement. 61.429 allows a flight instructor to operate as a Sport Pilot Flight instructor where the 24 month 61.195 (h) does not apply.