Sport Pilot Talk

Hi,

I am a brand-new PPC sport pilot. I heard that I can get the B,C,D airspace endorsement with a fixed wing CFI. The CFI will do the flying and I will do the talking on the radio. Is this true?

Most of my town is in D airspace, which is too bad since a lot of that area farmland. It would be a great place to fly a PPC. That's my motivation. The D-airport is in the next town and several miles from where I would like to fly.

Thanks,
Rob

You can be endorsed for controlled airspace only in an aircraft for which you hold piloting privileges. That is because you have to demonstrate far more for the endorsement than merely talking on the radio. My Airspace Ace course curriculum, for example, is posted to:

http://avsport.org/about/airspace.htm

It is my opinion that you need to find a PPC CFI to endorse you, after training you in a PPC (your own or one you rent).

drseti wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:39 am You can be endorsed for controlled airspace only in an aircraft for which you hold piloting privileges.

Paul, what is the regulatory citation for this?

I don't know the specific reg, Tom (maybe someone else here does). But, by implitation, the requirement (for example) that the pilot do three takeoffs and full stop landings at a towered airport, with flights in the traffic pattern, certainly suggests that the applicant must do the flying (hence, needs to know how to fly that category and class of aircraft). The OP seemed to think the CFI could do the flying, with him only working the radios. That would certainly not satisfy 61.325 (b).

I agree that having the CFI do the flying will not cut the mustard, but I don't see the requirement that the sport pilot must hold pilot privileges in the aircraft the training is being performed in. For example say the sport pilot PPC wants to add airplane privileges to his sport pilot certificate. He goes to a flight school that is located on a airport in Class C airspace. He could do the airspace training as part of his training to proficiency. Wouldn't he have to receive the CFR 61.325 endorsement for the airspace before he could do his proficiency check at that airport? Before he has pilot privileges in the airplane the endorsement was performed in?

OK, Tom, I concede that the pilot might not have to be rated in the aircraft. But, he or she certainly has to be qualified to fly it, in order to receive the airspace instruction and endorsement.

FWIW, I've personally done a number of endorsements - but never in an aircraft the pilot wasn't qualified to fly. (Usually, to me, qualified means rated and current.)

Must be qualified to “fly” it?? Can’t cite a regulation? Let’s not get into interpreting regulations now. The airspace regulation 61.325 doesn’t say one has to be PIC at all. I would argue that yea, a PPC person can get this instruction in any aircraft. This is no different than a sport pilot getting a tail wheel endorsement in some airplane that isn’t an lsa.

drseti wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:46 pm …the requirement (for example) that the pilot do three takeoffs and full stop landings at a towered airport…

What’s interesting is that the regulation doesn’t say “the pilot must make these landings”. The regulation only says that the training must include “Operations at airports with an operating control tower to include three takeoffs and landings…”. Doesn’t mean the student needs to do it, does it?

I believe some CFIs are are using the more liberal interpretation of 61.325. I know one other PPC Sport pilot who obtained the endorsement in an airplane.

comperini wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:34 pm
What’s interesting is that the regulation doesn’t say “the pilot must make these landings”.

I don't know about you, Bob, but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable endorsing any pilot who hadn't demonstrated to me competency in flying the aircraft. I guess that means my standards are more rigorous than the FAA's!

rob wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:56 pm I believe some CFIs are are using the more liberal interpretation of 61.325. I know one other PPC Sport pilot who obtained the endorsement in an airplane.

I'm not about to tell other CFIs what to do, Rob. But if they ask, I'm more than happy to tell them what I wouldn't do.

drseti wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:44 pm
I'm not about to tell other CFIs what to do, Rob. But if they ask, I'm more than happy to tell them what I wouldn't do.

Thank-you for your opinion.

I checked out your website, I wish I lived closer to PA.