Remos Thoughts

[flyboy]

Well sportcruiser or piper sport since we build and distribute them its pretty easy to tell you that regardless the two aircraft come in a crate get built and without a piper sticker you would not be able to figure out which one is which, but okay. We alsohave a piper sport with well over 400 hours and havent had the first issue with it. We have spent less on a 2007 sport cruiser, a 2010 piper sport, and a 1968 C177 in the last year combined than in any given 3 months of the last 2 years of the REMOS. However now that the FAA and NTSB are involved maybe REMOS will pull through for us and just for future reference the difference between old Cruz and new pipersport is a nose gear and some pulley size changes, and both are excellent aircraft and you will be hard pressed to get the aircraft identifier CRUZ changed for either aircraft just fyi we love them both, and we have 10 for sale if anyine is looking for pipersport aircraft. Have a good one [/quote]

[flyboy]

Well sportcruiser or piper sport since we build and distribute them its pretty easy to tell you that regardless the two aircraft come in a crate get built and without a piper sticker you would not be able to figure out which one is which, but okay. We alsohave a piper sport with well over 400 hours and havent had the first issue with it. We have spent less on a 2007 sport cruiser, a 2010 piper sport, and a 1968 C177 in the last year combined than in any given 3 months of the last 2 years of the REMOS. However now that the FAA and NTSB are involved maybe REMOS will pull through for us and just for future reference the difference between old Cruz and new pipersport is a nose gear and some pulley size changes, and both are excellent aircraft and you will be hard pressed to get the aircraft identifier CRUZ changed for either aircraft just fyi we love them both, and we have 10 for sale if anyine is looking for pipersport aircraft. Have a good one [/quote]

[goinaround]

Well sportcruiser or piper sport since we build and distribute them and we have 10 for sale if anyine is looking for pipersport aircraft. Have a good one

[/quote]

That kinda shows your hand huh?

Don't sell the Remos short, it is an awesome lsa, my biggest complaint would be ventilation, remove doors problem solved funfactor increased.
I personally dislike the flight characteristics of the fdsw and have witnessed the damage (landing gear, motor mounts etc) that regularly come thru a local business but I would still like to try a ctls, I think they call it evolution.
I guess my point is when most people bash something it's because they have an agenda. Go fly any you can and talk to the people renting.
In the end it's all about fun.

[Roger]

Don't sell the Remos short, it is an awesome lsa, my biggest complaint would be ventilation, remove doors problem solved funfactor increased.
I personally dislike the flight characteristics of the fdsw and have witnessed the damage (landing gear, motor mounts etc) that regularly come thru a local business but I would still like to try a ctls, I think they call it evolution.
I guess my point is when most people bash something it's because they have an agenda. Go fly any you can and talk to the people renting.
In the end it's all about fun.

Okay goinround - let me get this straight... you talk about "bashing" in your last paragraph but right before that you "bash" FD planes. Isn't that kind of like calling "the kettle black"??? You're right - A FEW GUYS WHO PROBABLY WEREN'T TRAINED PROPERLY have had some hard landings and damaged their gear and motor mounts BUT FD by far and away has more light sports out there then anyone else and if they were all "regularly going through the shop" I seriously doubt they'd be in the envious position they are today... so "what's your agenda?"

[flyboy]

Just for the record fellas I wasn't trying to bash REMOS as we still own the haNgar attraction and REMOS has agreed to take it back to the factory and figure out why its such a pain to us. Unfortunately none of the LSA aircraft are made in accordance with any universal standard that is as stringent as FAR 23 but are good aircraft... astm is good just not as specific, and since we still have a REMOS it would be unprofessional to bash it...my point was that REMOS service dept...has toyed with us for a year about shaking vibrating and bizarre issues that our mx staff and cfi staff with plenty of experie(tens of thousandsnce in hundred of hours of experience in over 150 different aircraft) both bizarre and irregular. Let's see what REMOS support does before we get hyper about anyone's agenda...and ps.. mine is with remos support more than the aircraft and the CD is a great little plane by the way though I don't own one.

[goinaround]

Don't sell the Remos short, it is an awesome lsa, my biggest complaint would be ventilation, remove doors problem solved funfactor increased.
I personally dislike the flight characteristics of the fdsw but I would still like to try a ctls, I think they call it evolution.
. Go fly any you can and talk to the people renting.
In the end it's all about fun.

Okay goinround - let me get this straight... you talk about "bashing" in your last paragraph but right before that you "bash" FD planes. Isn't that kind of like calling "the kettle black"??? You're right - A FEW GUYS WHO PROBABLY WEREN'T TRAINED PROPERLY have had some hard landings andso "what's your agenda?"

Most people will finally admit that the sw is not the ideal trainer but then you have the koolaid drinkers who believe it is the only worthy lsa and I feel the need to throw the bs flag.
As for agenda my only is to be able to fly light sport in a safe, easy fun to fly plane whatever it's manufacture. Personally if I could afford my own there are many that I would fly before making my choice, including the ctls.
Again I say go fly any you can and don't take anyones word as gospel including my own.

[EppyGA]

Well sportcruiser or piper sport since we build and distribute them its pretty easy to tell you that regardless the two aircraft come in a crate get built and without a piper sticker you would not be able to figure out which one is which, but okay. We alsohave a piper sport with well over 400 hours and havent had the first issue with it. We have spent less on a 2007 sport cruiser, a 2010 piper sport, and a 1968 C177 in the last year combined than in any given 3 months of the last 2 years of the REMOS. However now that the FAA and NTSB are involved maybe REMOS will pull through for us and just for future reference the difference between old Cruz and new pipersport is a nose gear and some pulley size changes, and both are excellent aircraft and you will be hard pressed to get the aircraft identifier CRUZ changed for either aircraft just fyi we love them both, and we have 10 for sale if anyine is looking for pipersport aircraft. Have a good one

My point was you have people mis-representing Sportcruisers as Piper Sports now. We have a guy here locally that has a Sportcruiser and is trying to sell it. He lists it on the airport bulletin board as a Piper Sport. Unless you're saying the Piper is going to back that plane after he sells it then I say he is being disingeuous in listing it the way he has.

[Sailboss]

Okay, I bought a used Remos G3-600 , so my prejudice is obvious.

Before buying the Remos, I did a demo in the FD CTLS. Nice airplane, well-built and equipped.

The flaps are overly-complicated. There's a negative six-degree flap setting for cruise that'll get you in trouble if you try a no-flaps landing. You need to go back to zero flaps. At full flaps, the ailerons droop to increase the flap span and lower landing speed. That means lift dumps when the ailerons are deflected (read crosswind gust response down low).

As for the "untrained" guys causing all the trouble-- read the AOPA ASF databse files and you'll see CFI's and commercial pilots dumping the CT on landing.

Then just do a little math and count the number of accidents. Compare them with the Remos. When I bought mine the count was CT 19, Remos 4! The Remos count included the fatal at Sebring where the commercial-rated pilot failed to hook-up the aileron quick-disconnect and a guy who flew into the water while adjusting his hat! That guy survived a high-speed (greater than 100 knots) impact with only a minor injury (cut finger) and the aircraft is reportedly flying in Brazil!

And my 646-pound G3 will lift 674 pounds of meat, full fuel and baggage. Try that, legally, with an 800 pound SportCruiser or Skycatcher! All four are great little airplanes in the right hands, but the Remos is the pick of the litter.

[ArionAv8or]

I just love how we ALL are so quick to defend our own planes and knock someone else's who claim theirs is better.

If I get a "well my dad can beat up your dad" I am outta here.

[Sailboss]

Hey, I warned you up front!

What I did is give you my reasoning for choosing an aircraft that cost $5k MORE than the CT!

The prejudice is obvious from my choice. The logic is a different matter. I really did make an effort to weed through the PR and hype. I'm no aerodynamicist, but my experience with the Mitsubishi MU-2B and RF-4B lead me to believe that without special skills and techniques, aircraft that lose a significant portion of lift in this way will be hard to land in a crosswind. In both cases above, the rudder is used without ailerons in close to avoid dumping the airplane.

As for the weight issues, some folks really don't mind being over-gross. And in the case of the CT and SportCruiser it is primarily a legal issue, but that extra 150 pounds is damned hard to come by and remain under 1320 MGTOW.

As for other aircraft, I did reject any aircraft with bicycle shifters for flap control and a Shimano hand brake.

All I really wanted to do was lay out a method for decision-making that is more subjective. Unfortunately, once the decision is made, people are very willing to dismiss the process and settle for some emotional reason as justification.

My mission criteria drove the selection. For a purely single-pilot, local fun flier, I may have chosen differently.

So my Dad is no better, just different! Fair Skies!

[tadel001]

I would simply point out that you did not compare apples to apples. (I am not saying you should have). The CT accident database mostly consist of CTSW not CTLS. The CTLS is a different airplane. As most European manufacturers found out, the US is a different market and different designs are needed to meet that market. The CTLS is a much better flying aircraft.

"Untrained" does not mean low hours. It means people not trained for that type of aircraft. Yes, most LSA accident are experienced pilots. Most GA pilots have experience on a very limited set of aircraft. The LSA movement introduced an entire new type of aircraft that is easy (but different) to fly. In fact, I would say it is actually more "flying" than some of the heavier stuff.

Congrats on the purchase. I am sure you will be happy. Any sport plane is cooler than no sport plane!

p.s. I can beat up both your dads! Sorry, couldn't resist. I told my nephew next time someone says something like that, tell him your uncle can beat up his entire family. My sister didn't like. I thought it was funny.

[zaitcev]

I won't lie, the 705 lbs empty weight is amazing. But it sure comes at a cost in dollars. In my desperation I am even willing to look at things like Elitar Sigma, even though it clearly is a worse airplane than Remos (Sigma has the same 770 empty weight as CTLS, but without any instruments to speak about).

BTW, a shop in California makes something called Skylark II, 647 lbs empty weight. It's lighter than a barebones, 85 mph X-Air. I'm seriously wondering how it holds itself together. Remos I can believe... barely.

[rfane]

The flaps are overly-complicated. There's a negative six-degree flap setting for cruise that'll get you in trouble if you try a no-flaps landing. You need to go back to zero flaps. At full flaps, the ailerons droop to increase the flap span and lower landing speed. That means lift dumps when the ailerons are deflected (read crosswind gust response down low).

Congrats on the Remos purchase. Hope you enjoy it. It's not an aircraft that I myself would own, but I'll keep my reasons to myself. You know what they say about opinions being like as*holes.

Curious as to why you state the flaps of the CT are overly complicated? Did you actually form your own opinion of that on one demo flight?

I routinely make -6 degree flap landings in my CTSW. Keep the airspeed up, and it's easy peasy. Just did one on Oct. 13th in Bullhead City, AZ. Winds were 24 gusting to 30, right down the runway. -6 degress with 70 knots approach speed made it easy. Touchdown was so soft that I felt the tires start to spin. Turning off the runway afterwards was of more concern. Making full flap landings with crosswinds in the CT is not a bright idea. It can be done if you manage your energy carefully, but unless you are landing on a short strip, it makes more sense to use lower flap settings and keep the approach speed up a bit.

[ArionAv8or]

I am even willing to look at things like Elitar Sigma, even though it clearly is a worse airplane than Remos (Sigma has the same 770 empty weight as CTLS, but without any instruments to speak about).

I would definitely rethink the Sigma thing before I went that route. I completed a 1 hour training session in the Egg while the flight school's other trainer (Aerostar Festival) was down for maintenance, squirrelly little ba#@ard on the ground but not too bad in the air. I would buy me another 1946 Ercoupe 415c before I went the Egg route. Just my .02 worth of course.

p.s. My dad says you hit like a girl tadel001, LOL

[vacantstance]

Reading the original post, if you are looking for something that's cheap but still a "real plane", I can heartily recommend the Eurofox - it's about half the cost of the Remos or CT, has plenty of room in the cockpit, has all the right options for the sport pilot, has great support, and flies great. I don't have any points of comparison, but I can't imagine that any other plane with the same engine could be worth the price difference.

This is way after the original post but I concur with the praise of the Eurofox. Renamed the Aerotrek 240(trike wheel) I haven't found a plane that compares to this one for the cost. I was looking at Kitfoxes and I seriously considered building the Highlander to keep costs down, but when I started comparing the three, the Aerotrek won out. Great price, useful load, trailer-able(until it's paid off and I can afford a hangar), cabin space, the Aerotrek is definitely a contender with the composites.