Piper LSA?

[KSCessnaDriver]

I saw this on one of the various aviation forum's that I browse on a regular basis. I know a lot of people here are really on top of the stuff in the LSA world, so I though I would ask if anybody knows anything on this.


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... s-way.html

Basically, from that article, it sounds like that Piper is going to acquire 49% of Czech Sport Aircraft (CSA), and then sell SportCruisers as Piper's. I'm really excited about this possibility, and think it will really help to bring more of the big airplane companies on board, helping to spread the sport pilot/LSA concept to a wider audience.

[dstclair]

A nice side benefit of this would be an increase in the number and regional availability of certified Rotax mechanics.

[AZPilot]

Now that is interesting!

[LightSportFlyer]

Piper is going to pay $ 30 Million for ONLY 49 % of a company that has just ONE Lsa design in their stable ? Wow their new owners sure do have alot of money burning a hole in their pockets.

What a major change of direction too, under their last CEO Jim Bass they seemed mainly interested in selling just the big buck airplanes - now they're going into a VERY competitive market with over 100 other LSA manufacturers slugging it out for alot less profit.

I guess they agree with Cessna's thinking of trying to get new pilots in at the ground level in their airplanes and hope someday they step up and buy a Piper Jet !!

And these low wing LSAs, like the SportCruiser and others, with their forward opening all glass canopies ought to be banned in my opinion. Flip over on landing and you either get crushed and/or trapped with no way to get out, and with fuel potentially leaking from the wing tanks not a happy thought.

[KSCessnaDriver]

And these low wing LSAs, like the SportCruiser and others, with their forward opening all glass canopies ought to be banned in my opinion. Flip over on landing and you either get crushed and/or trapped with no way to get out, and with fuel potentially leaking from the wing tanks not a happy thought.

I know of a guy who managed to flip a DA-20 over. Crushed the canopy, fuel leaking everywhere. He was a taller guy, and didn't have an any issues with hitting his head on the ground. He couldn't get out until after help got there.

But honestly, if we start banning everything that every person sees as unsafe, we won't have a single airplane out there. If you don't like it, don't fly it. But don't ruin the fun for the rest of us.

[Aerco]

And these low wing LSAs, like the SportCruiser and others, with their forward opening all glass canopies ought to be banned in my opinion. Flip over on landing and you either get crushed and/or trapped with no way to get out, and with fuel potentially leaking from the wing tanks not a happy thought.

If a Cherokee flips over its unlikely you'll be able the door and get either.
Some rollover structure is nice to have, but never throw around the phrase "should be banned" in aviation - there are plenty of individuals and organizations out there already working on banning just about everything to do with airplanes.

You make your choice and accept responsibility.

[Murrell]

nd these low wing LSAs, like the SportCruiser and others, with their forward opening all glass canopies ought to be banned in my opinion. Flip over on landing and you either get crushed and/or trapped with no way to get out, and with fuel potentially leaking from the wing tanks not a happy thought.


If You can't say anything good about your own airplane { if You have one }

Don't down grade someone elses !

Sounds like Politicans !!!

Murrell

[LightSportFlyer]

My comment about forward opening canopies being banned really addresses a deeper problem with LSAs. Case in point I looked at AMD's Zodiac at Sebring a couple of years ago, another low wing design with a forward opening canopy. I told the rep the same thing - if it flips over on landing there is nothing to protect the pilot and passenger from getting crushed in addition to being trapped with no way to get out.

He told me they had designed a robust rollover protection system but it weighed too much and decreased payload so they left it out. You end up with nothing to protect yourself and just take your chances. Even an inexpensive $ 15,000 car has more safety features than a fully decked out $ 130,000 + LSA. To be fair AMD has now added a lightweight rollover bar but many other low wing LSAs with forward opening canopys still have nothing, and probably for the same weight saving reason.

While I'm not a pilot there must be a safer way to meet the LSA requirements of low stall speed and 120 knots max speed than stripping out as much weight as possible. And I'm sure there is, but it would cost more and that goes against the whole concept of low cost.

Now I see why general aviation is so screwed up.

[zaitcev]

While I'm not a pilot there must be a safer way to meet the LSA requirements of low stall speed and 120 knots max speed than stripping out as much weight as possible. And I'm sure there is, but it would cost more and that goes against the whole concept of low cost.

You conveniently forgot to mention the ridiculous weight limit that government regulation imposed on LSA. If it weren't for that limit, much better safety would have been available at lower cost.

Now I see why general aviation is so screwed up.

Too many nannies who tell people how they should fly and what is safe and not safe. Plus, ambulance-chasers.

-- Pete

[FastEddieB]

While we're at it, let's ban:



...and...



...and...



Anything else you'd like to ban that I'm missing?

[LightSportFlyer]

While I'm not a pilot there must be a safer way to meet the LSA requirements of low stall speed and 120 knots max speed than stripping out as much weight as possible. And I'm sure there is, but it would cost more and that goes against the whole concept of low cost.

You conveniently forgot to mention the ridiculous weight limit that government regulation imposed on LSA. If it weren't for that limit, much better safety would have been available at lower cost.

Exactly, it appears to me that the FAA and the AC manufacturers’ primary objective was to try and stimulate demand for GA fast and "on the cheap". The quickest and easiest route was to import micro lights from Europe, re badge them as something called an "LSA", and then use those specs for any new clean sheet designs to follow. With such a large emphasis on light weight and low cost, it doesn't leave much room left for designing and adding as many safety features as it could have.

[drseti]

Anything else you'd like to ban that I'm missing?

I'd say "wives," Eddie, but mine might read this.

[KSCessnaDriver]

My comment about forward opening canopies being banned really addresses a deeper problem with LSAs. Case in point I looked at AMD's Zodiac at Sebring a couple of years ago, another low wing design with a forward opening canopy. I told the rep the same thing - if it flips over on landing there is nothing to protect the pilot and passenger from getting crushed in addition to being trapped with no way to get out.

He told me they had designed a robust rollover protection system but it weighed too much and decreased payload so they left it out. You end up with nothing to protect yourself and just take your chances. Even an inexpensive $ 15,000 car has more safety features than a fully decked out $ 130,000 + LSA. To be fair AMD has now added a lightweight rollover bar but many other low wing LSAs with forward opening canopys still have nothing, and probably for the same weight saving reason.

Apples to oranges, my friend. Cars have many things airplanes don't have, and yet there are features that airplanes have that cars do not. If you personally don't feel like the roll over protection isn't enough, simply do no fly that type of aircraft. Its people like you that end up raising the cost of GA to everyone. What one person perceives as unsafe, others feel is safe.

While I'm not a pilot there must be a safer way to meet the LSA requirements of low stall speed and 120 knots max speed than stripping out as much weight as possible. And I'm sure there is, but it would cost more and that goes against the whole concept of low cost.

Now I see why general aviation is so screwed up.

It's been beaten to death, but I'll say it again. Light sport was not designed to lower the cost of flying. EAA, AOPA and other organizations jumped on that train long ago. Light sport and sport pilot was created to regulate the very large number of non-compliant Part 103 ultralights. Some manufactures pushed to get the weight to where they felt they could build new airplanes to fit the category.

General aviation is screwed up because people try to push opinions of safety on the rest of us through regulation. Look, if you don't think something is safe, by all means, don't fly it. Encourage people not to fly it, if you are so inclined. But don't go out and force other people not to fly it.

[AZPilot]

Wow, I've been in GA for 30 yrs and I'm just now learning about all of the unsafe aircraft that might "roll over" and trap someone inside.

I'm thinking that a surgeon general "you can be killed if you get out of bed" warning placard on the panel must be immediately mandated by FAA.

Training syllabi should be amended to include training on how not to land an airplane via the top of the cockpit.

Disclaimer: I owned a Grumman Cheetah for many years.

[LightSportFlyer]

While we're at it, let's ban:



...and...



...and...



Anything else you'd like to ban that I'm missing?

Your sarcasm really shows you missed the point, this is merely about making vehicles of all types safer and still being able to enjoy the experience. Your Air Cam isn't low wing with a glass bubble overhead thats potentially going to trap you in a crash.

Adding a lousy $ 100 rollover bar to the convertible saves lives and doesn't detract from the open air experience much at all.

And having ridden a motor cycle for many years I can personally vouch for crash bars and a helmet saving my life. I got lucky and yes I think simple and inexpensive safety features like these should be mandatory in bikes and LSAs.

Talk to the family of someone who's lost a loved one in a crash and see if they agree - death has a way of clarifying these issues.

Its ironic, the FAA requires us to learn many safety procedures in our training, pass a written test and a checkride, yet won't raise the weight limit high enough for even basic safety features to be added to these planes.