PiperSport!!! What Happened?

designrs · Post by **designrs** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:12 pm

According to a Piper press release 1/12/11:

"Piper to Terminate PiperSport Distributor Relationship... will terminate its business relationship with Czech Republic-based Czech Sport Aircraft to market that company’s Light Sport Aircraft, citing differences in business philosophies."

Full press release here:
http://www.piper.com/pages/PipertoTermi ... 122011.cfm

Thought PiperSport had a great thing going!
What happened?

rfane · Post by **rfane** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:29 pm

I figured we would have some fallout in the LSA market, and some owners would fall into the orphaned category. I never thought that Piper would be included.

designrs · Post by **designrs** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:38 pm

Well there is still Czech Sport Aircraft and the SportCruiser with the same great product. It will be good to see how they continue on. The plane itself is excellent!

EppyGA · Post by **EppyGA** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:16 pm

My guess is they couldn't get along the Czech Sport Aircraft folks and decided to cut the cord. I believe the same guy is involved with them as was when they were CZAW. He is know to be difficult to work with.

designrs · Post by **designrs** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:14 am

Per Light Sport Hanger Flyin': Jackie Carlon of Piper, "Piper made the decision to terminate our master distributor agreement,"... "We were happy with the aircraft, and it was doing very well in the marketplace. Piper and the distributors were very pleased with the quality. At the end, it was truly a fundamental difference in philosophy. Now, we'll be focusing on managing the transition process, establishing a plan on how to best do that."

Per Dan Johnson: "This follows a year that saw Piper register more new SLSA than any other company, almost reaching their sales target announced at last year's Sebring... Piper registered a total of 54 PiperSport SLSA in 2010. They had forecast 75 units, but the actual number represents a solid performance in a down year. Look for our full-year LSA market report to follow. As always remember that registrations may not equal aircraft deliveries; Piper may state a different figure for their 2010 sales."

Fleming Aviation · Post by **Fleming Aviation** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:23 am

The marketing agreement between Piper and CZAW gave an increased legitimacy to the LSA market. For that I'm grateful. Their exit is unfortunate. At the same time we cannot lose sight of the fact that the SportCruiser and PiperSport are the same aircraft. Sales and support of the PiperSport was always through the distributors working with the factory. Piper played no role in either of these except to give their name. The distributor network will continue as is has.

As far as Fleming Aviation is concerned, little has changed. We still rent, sell and support a great light sport aircraft. We intend to grow our fleet and expand to other areas. Our support of existing and future pilots and owners of this fine aircraft continues and will grow.

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:24 am

Often, when you hear a business relationship is dissolving due to 'differing philosophies', it boils down to a money issue. In a market place where discretionary income funds the sale of the product, the economy remains weak, and where the market is flooded with competing product and pricing pressures, it would not be surprising to learn that the pie could not be cut into enough pieces of sufficient size to cover each party's expenses and produce sufficient profit to justify their involvement.

LightSportFlyer · Post by **LightSportFlyer** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:26 am

Piper seems to be a hard company to work for, they're on their what - third CEO in as many years. What concerns me most is whether they'll remain in the LSA market at all. I haven't seen any announcements that they've found a new model to sell or even if they're still committed to the concept long term. Actions speak louder than words.

They seem to be spending most of their money on their new single jet program hiring over 100 engineers. As in politics, follow the money and you'll discover their true intentions.

ArionAv8or · Post by **ArionAv8or** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:32 pm

I believe this will answer most of your questions surrounding Piper's stance in the LSA market.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... t%20Market

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:05 pm

Didn't Cirrus make a big splash a few years ago with their LSA entry, also like Piper, not of their own make and design? Looks like Cessna is the only one who has made a real commitment. What about the buyers who thought that with the Piper named slapped onto their aircraft there was going to be some real support for them? Laying out over 100 K for an acft purchase requires some real homework and study, and right now it looks to me that Cessna has the least amount of risk. At least with Cessna you know they have put out some serious money developing the Skycatcher.

designrs · Post by **designrs** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:30 pm

Cirrus was a completely different situation.
Cirrus was going to "Cirruscize" the FK-Lightplanes FK-14. Although they were taking pre-order deposits little was disclosed about their redesign of the the aircraft as a Cirrus product. They did not even answer the burning question if the plane would have a center or side-stick! The plane required significant redesign to fit into the "Cirrus Product Experience". When Cirrus terminated the project they were quoted as saying "the project was a casualty of the economy".

PiperSport on the other hand simply licensed, marketed and sold the SportCruiser under the Piper name. Aside from a few "second generation" improvements of the product, nothing really changed. It is the same aircraft as the SportCruiser. Piper just had to put their name on it. The planes were ordered from and supported by the factory at CZAW. By all accounts the PiperSport sold very well in the down economy. Piper stopped distributing the PiperSport due to some sort of conflict in "business philosophy" with CZAW. The number of units sold was not the issue for termination.

It appeared that Piper had the deal that most aircraft companies wished they had!

The SportCruiser product could very likely continue on successfully without the Piper name. It still has the largest market share (most sold) for all-metal low wing LSA aircraft, and is still near the very top of the LSA market share list.

Yes Cessna obviously spent a lot of money and had great pains developing the SkyCatcher... but it is a totally different plane in many ways (wing configuration, motor, construction, etc.) which would probably attract a completely different buyer than the SportCruiser.

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:03 pm

designrs wrote:Cirrus was a completely different situation.
Cirrus was going to "Cirruscize" the FK-Lightplanes FK-14. Although they were taking pre-order deposits little was disclosed about their redesign of the the aircraft as a Cirrus product. They did not even answer the burning question if the plane would have a center or side-stick! The plane required significant redesign to fit into the "Cirrus Product Experience". When Cirrus terminated the project they were quoted as saying "the project was a casualty of the economy".

PiperSport on the other hand simply licensed, marketed and sold the SportCruiser under the Piper name. Aside from a few "second generation" improvements of the product, nothing really changed. It is the same aircraft as the SportCruiser. Piper just had to put their name on it. The planes were ordered from and supported by the factory at CZAW. By all accounts the PiperSport sold very well in the down economy. Piper stopped distributing the PiperSport due to some sort of conflict in "business philosophy" with CZAW. The number of units sold was not the issue for termination.

It appeared that Piper had the deal that most aircraft companies wished they had!

The SportCruiser product could very likely continue on successfully without the Piper name. It still has the largest market share (most sold) for all-metal low wing LSA aircraft, and is still near the very top of the LSA market share list.

Yes Cessna obviously spent a lot of money and had great pains developing the SkyCatcher... but it is a totally different plane in many ways (wing configuration, motor, construction, etc.) which would probably attract a completely different buyer than the SportCruiser.

Yes it is a different situation in that Cirrus didn't actually deliver any anyplanes, but the plan was the same as Pipers'. With Cirrus you got your deposit back, but the people who took delivery of a Piper Sport have got to feel like they've been stabbed in the back. One big selling point of the Cessna Skycatcher or the Piper Sport is the backing of a big brand name. Horror stories of waiting 6-8 weeks for a part or the possibility of the manufacturer going under anytime soon would no longer be a worry.

What does difference of "business philosophy" mean. Piper gets the orders and Czech Aircraft fills the order. As long as everyone makes money, whats the problem? The only problem I can think of is not enough orders.

deltafox · Post by **deltafox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:33 am

I bought a PiperSport. I am stunned, but don't feel 'stabbed in the back'. The Piper name was a major factor in my buying decision, but not the only one. I love the airplane. I trust and respect the people that I worked with that sold and will continue to support me. Yes, I am concerned about the long term ramifications, but in today's world the same can be said about my job, my home and any investments I have made. Why the divorce happened is pure speculation at this point, hopefully more will come out during Sebring, but most times these things are about money and who gets what part of the pie.

dstclair · Post by **dstclair** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:01 am

It doesn't appear to me that there is much reading between the lines. The corporate world is about ROI and the ROI for PiperSport was not in line with Piper's expectation. They clearly feel that investment in the PiperJet will maximize their returns. This doesn't mean that the PiperSport wasn't profitable nor does it make a statement on the LSA industry; it just means the opportunity cost was too high for Piper. Remember it was the prior CEO who inked the deal with Czech Sport Aircraft. Different boss, different direction.

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:23 am

"The SportCruiser product...still has the largest market share (most sold) for all-metal low wing LSA aircraft, and is still near the very top of the LSA market share list."

Let's not overlook all of the LSA market when monitoring sales, even tho that is commonly done by sources like bydanjohnson.com (who seem to be more LSA 'promoters' than objective analysts of the LSA marketplace).

RV-12 E-LSA kits - another low wing metal a/c - have only been selling for 2+ years now and I believe they have now registered over 500 builders (altho' not all these kits have been completed, obviously). This compares with 108 Sport Cruisers being sold in 2009 and 148 being sold in 2010 (thru Oct). So both before & after Piper's name was added to the existing Sport Cruiser product, those S-LSA's were selling at a slower rate than RV-12 kits coming from Vans in Oregon.