New Tecnam P2008 Photos

[Mark Gregor]

Some of the Newest Tecnam P2008 Photos, Just thought you all might like to see them.
- Jake

[jnmeade]

I'm jealous. It's probably what I would fly if I could afford one. You'll undoubtedly have many happy hours and memorable trips in it.

[ct4me]

That is a sweet-lookin' bird... but, all that purdiness eats into useful load. 'Couldn't fly it with me/wife and full fuel... and forget luggage. Gotta get serious about that diet!

[artp]

While the plane might look good on paper, the problem is, if you live in the US you have to buy it from Tecnam America. Having bought a Sierra from them in December 2011 for delivery in January, I can tell you they don't know what they are doing. The actual delivery didn't happen until March. The delay was caused by using an improperly built wiring harness and installed by an inexperienced avionics technician (their experienced one quit). There were minor problems with the plane and major problems with the avionics (autopilot tried to flip the plane in stand alone mode, the autopilot would not talk to the PFD, sectionals did not work, enroute charts did not work, the backup gps did not work, the ADS-B weather and traffic did not work Tecnam's position was that they installed the equipment but it wasn't there problem if it did not work and that what was really was for me to get more training. After contacting Garmin, Trio, and Advanced Flight Systems (who contacted Tecnam and told them everything that was wrong with the installation based upon looking at the about screen on the PFD and MFD), Tecnam agreed to take it back and fix it in May. They delivered it again in July and a quick ground check confirmed that the autopilot still did not talk to the PFD so I refused to accept it. They took it back. They called at the end of July and said it was ready but before they could deliver it they called again to say it wasn't ready and all of their people went to Oshkosh and wouldn't be back for 2 weeks. That is when I called a lawyer.

[zaitcev]

I wish they removed the "shelf" under the panel, for my knee room, rather than go bananas with instrumentation. Even Sierra had a more rational panel, that airplane is flown IFR in Europe.

[ct4me]

Art,
That's a streak of bad luck, for sure. Didn't you also have a problem with a CT?

[FastEddieB]

Art,
That's a streak of bad luck, for sure. Didn't you also have a problem with a CT?

And a Cirrus before that???

Well, bad things tend to happen in threes!

[artp]

In between I had a 2008 C172S with the G1000 and GFC700. I didn't like it's crosswind handling but the plane was trouble free. So it can be done, even with advanced avionics. But some companies are better at it than others. It seems based on a plane sales thread, I am the only new Tecnam this year and my lawyer says while he would like to get my money back, and he thinks he could win in arbitration, and then court, he doesn't think Tecnam America is solvent enough to pay (I had to put $100k down when I ordered so they could buy the upgrades I ordered and they are currently laying off people).

Art,
That's a streak of bad luck, for sure. Didn't you also have a problem with a CT?

And a Cirrus before that???

Well, bad things tend to happen in threes!

[zaitcev]

According to my information, Tecnam delivered no less than 2 of P2006T in 2012 in the U.S.A.. One of them came online early in the year with Ocean Air of Watsonville, CA (registered to Gryphon's own LLC for some business reason). So it appears that Tecnam in Italy continues to exist just fine. However, I do not know if these airplanes were bought through the entity known as "Tecnam USA". They are type certified twins after all.

[AlanR]

Sounds like an avionics issue that a good avionics guy could sort in a few hours. Not a fundamental problem with the aircraft.
Why not take the plane away to another avionics shop, get them to sort it, and then bill Tecnam America who I guess is just the local distributor.

Incidently Tecam is an Italian company but the P2008 is built in Spain, and I understand their order book worldwide is very healthy.

[artp]

When it became obvious that HOV (Heart of Virginia Aviation) couldn't fix the problem I wanted to take to plane to Chesapeake Sport Pilot (listed as an authorized Tecnam service center) but Phil Soloman (president of Tecnam American and president of HOV) said since all approvals for warranty work have to go through them they would not approve or pay for any work not done by them. The plane is not at Chesapeake Sport Pilot (Tecnam of America left it there when I wouldn't accept the plane until the autopilot was fixed). I didn't know about until my lawyer called me after he got a call from CSP saying they left the plane there.

I have having CSP fix the problems and my lawyer is sending a notice to Tecnam America to perserve my rights to bring action against them. I was at CSP today and it would appear I am not the only one who has had problems with HOV.

Sounds like an avionics issue that a good avionics guy could sort in a few hours. Not a fundamental problem with the aircraft.
Why not take the plane away to another avionics shop, get them to sort it, and then bill Tecnam America who I guess is just the local distributor.

Incidently Tecam is an Italian company but the P2008 is built in Spain, and I understand their order book worldwide is very healthy.

[philsolomon]

I am the CEO of Tecnam North America and welcome any direct comments, questions and criticisms from any interested parties. We operate an “open door” policy and I am always available at my e-mail address of [email protected] or on my cell phone 276-952-5859. My user name is very clear so you will not see any anonymous or semi-anonymous postings from me.

I have seen some negative comments that specifically relate to me and my company but I do not feel that a public forum is the appropriate place to enter into the minutia of a contractual debate with a specific customer so I will restrict my comments to a very generic discussion of avionics installations in a Light Sport aircraft as this has wider interest.

Suffice it to say that we always try, in good faith, to go above and beyond the pure contractual requirements to ensure customer satisfaction but that can, sometimes, prove elusive.

Installations of avionics in a certified aircraft are far simpler in many respects than in a Light Sport. The rules of how something should work, the settings to be used and the interface with other products are all very clearly delineated. The entire installation has either been certified as part of the original aircraft certification or STC’s have been obtained. In either case this involves extensive testing to ensure that every combination of approved equipment works as designed in that aircraft and FAA oversight prior to issuance of an STC. The result is a very tightly knit installation where there is no room for creativity and a price that reflects the amount of work that was needed to achieve the STC and the fact that it is, in effect, a mini monopoly.

Light Sport Aircraft are allowed to use both certified (TSO) equipment and non certified equipment (“experimental”) which gives the owners two major advantages – a degree of creativity in how the individual components are allowed to interact and a price that is usually a fraction of the certified equivalents. On the other hand, the equipment, as delivered from the manufacturer, is generally set-up in a very generic fashion so is not specifically tailored to the individual make and model of Light Sport aircraft. When both certified and non-certified equipment are blended together there can be clashes of protocols and other unexpected outcomes.

By their nature the TSO’d equipment has to be subject to very strict restrictions on any type of non-factory alteration of key settings and must prevent non TSO’d interfaces from being able to alter the functioning of the equipment. Experimental equipment is not required to have such tight controls and, indeed, because it is the installer who has to optimize the installation and not the manufacturer, they must offer a greater degree of flexibility in the set-up.

As a result, any highly complex installation involving the integration of three or four different manufacturers’ products, multiple back-up scenarios and full IFR capability including coupled approaches is going to require a lot of trial and error because it is the equivalent of creating a brand new STC but carried out for perhaps only one customer in a truly personalized installation. Inherently the experimental equipment will have multiple installer/user controllable settings which have to be harmonized with multiple different products leading to a potentially huge number of possible combinations and permutations to be considered. What works perfectly for 99% of situations may not be the optimal setting for a less common situation so there may be a compromise that has to be made.

We have excellent relations with our key suppliers who, when confronted with an unusual or difficult request, and a demanding customer will pitch in and do whatever is necessary to resolve the situation as a team. This is really not something that you will find in the certified sector as they can rarely change anything due to the restrictive nature of the FAR's.

Most of the Light Sport manufacturers will not entertain any custom installs because of the complexity and the difficulties, sometimes, of managing expectations. We will work with the customer on what he or she is looking for and, if feasible, provide a quote and a custom panel design for his/her approval. Most of the time we can match results with expectations, even if a couple of iterations are needed, to ensure an optimal result. No business is perfect and we are no exception. We recognize that by providing customers with a high degree of input into the process we run the risk of un-tethered expectations but we also give them something that many value – active participation!

We are always delighted to have customers, or potential customers, visit us at KOFP to talk directly with me and my colleagues, to look at the facilities we have, check out our installation work, gauge our attitude, demo some planes or just hang out! You can then make up your own mind. You do not "survive" for twenty years in as brutal a business as we are in and systematically disappoint customers due to poor service.

[drseti]

Welcome aboard, Phil. It's good to have you on the forums. I wish all LSA manufacturers were as committed to openness and communications as your company appears to be. Thank you for reaching out to our participants.

[CBKERR]

I for one appreciate your comments. That in my book is being proactive and putting it all out there in the wind. Ie cell and email. I for one am a recent certificated sport pilot who trained at CSP in a tecnam P92 Eaglet. Love the plane and can't wait for a few taildraggers to go online locally to get my tail wheel endorsment. I am in a customer service business and putting your info out there in a forum like this is "awesome" in my opinion. One day when the $$$ is right for me I see myself owning a tecnam

Brian

[philsolomon]

It is a pleasure to be able to come on line and chat with you guys. The P92 Eaglet is a particularly good trainer thanks to the high lift wing, the accessibility of the engine compartment, the sprung steel gear and a number of other thoughtful features along with, of course, all metal construction. There are a little under 1,500 P92's flying in about 60 countries world wide including certified and retractable versions. By the way, the numbers used by Tecnam (P92) refer to the year of design except if another plane was designed that year or it is an odd number.......

If you like the existing Eaglet you will love the the new G5 version - improved baggage compartment (more like the P2008), doors that do stay closed - yes, unfortunately, the early versions needed modifications to keep the doors properly latched - and a series of smaller changes that make life more comfortable. The nose gear has been beefed up and the nose wheel/tire is now the same as on the mains so that should make for easier maintenance. Add in free engine monitoring, the Rotax I engine option, a glass panel PFD (Trutrak Gemini PFD) as part of the standard day/night avionics package and you have a really great trainer and personal aircraft.

As for making life interesting we do have a P92 tail Dragger (come and check it out at KOFP or on our web site - www.tecnam.net or bid for it at the AOPA Summit in October) and a P92 Amphibian (Echo SeaSky). The Tail Dragger is available with both the Lycoming and Rotax engines.

The LSA market is in a state of flux and on another post, if anybody is interested, I will give you my take on how things might play out over the next few years. Obviously, only one person's opinion.