Propeller?

[sportjen]

I have bought a SportCruiser, and it has the Woodcomp propeller on it.

Someone told me the Senenich 3 blade is a better propeller, as I'm told the Woodcomp doesn't last.

Ideas?

Jen

[drseti]

True, Jen, the Sensenich is more robust. But it's also quite a bit more expensive. I replaced the blades on my Woodcomp after 1200 hours of rough student abuse - but they only cost me $850. I think I came out ahead.

If you do want to swap props, that will require both a Letter of Authorization from Czech Sport Aircraft, and also a revision to your wt/bal.

[sportjen]

Hi all,

I'm new to the Sport world. I have flown T.C.'d airplanes all my life, but I've bought the SportCruiser in an attempt to save money in the long run. The plane is good, but I don't know if the saving money part will work.

I asked my dealer, here in the U.S., about just changing the blades on the Woodcomp prop, and they recommended, instead, that I spend $3,500 for a new, 3-blade Sensenich.

Now I'm sure the Sensenich is a very good prop. I do hear good things about it. But please share:

What do you all think?

Paul sounds good here, and I wonder if my dealer is.......well...trying to get me to buy a Mercedes that will last 10 years, when I could maybe do as well buying a Chevy every 4 years....

A consumer's view, preferences, etc.

[deltafox]

I fly my PiperSport out of a small strip in Pennsylvania (7N8). Part of the taxiway has crumbling concrete and debris left over from golf course maintenance. The rest of the way is turf. The plastic edge on the Woodcomp was really getting shabby after only 150 hours.

I purchased the Sensenich Propeller in October. I wanted the metal leading edge. It is "smooth" running, more substantial with less "flex". In addition to looking great, it gives me about 5kts improvement in cruise. I also notice better take off performance but haven't quantified the improvement yet.

[zaitcev]

I would just fly it for now and look into the change when the time comes. It's not like throwing out the run-flats that your BMW comes with and installing normal tires. There is no downside in putting hours on Woodcomp and then deciding what you prefer. Even if you make the decision 150 hours later, it's going to be better informed.

[theskunk]

where are you flying out of? The dealer that I have 'worked with' in the past does recommend the 3 blade, but also seems to have some other theories on how to get the job done, too.

[Jim Stewart]

If you do want to swap props, that will require both a Letter of Authorization from Czech Sport Aircraft, and also a revision to your wt/bal.

No argument about the W&B. As to the LOA, we just finished a long and painful thread over on ctflier.com with the conclusion that you could fit an alternate prop without an LOA *if* the alternate prop was listed as an option in your POI. The work would still have to be done by a rated repairman.

[artp]

If you do want to swap props, that will require both a Letter of Authorization from Czech Sport Aircraft, and also a revision to your wt/bal.

No argument about the W&B. As to the LOA, we just finished a long and painful thread over on ctflier.com with the conclusion that you could fit an alternate prop without an LOA *if* the alternate prop was listed as an option in your POI. The work would still have to be done by a rated repairman.

Tecnam made it clear with their documentation that any item not in the approval letter I received with the plane could not be added without express permission even if it is an option for the plane.

[drseti]

Tecnam made it clear with their documentation that any item not in the approval letter I received with the plane could not be added without express permission even if it is an option for the plane.

Unfortunately, the FARs clearly give the airframe manufacturer the authority to set such policies. So, in choosing an aircraft, one must take into consideration the experiences other owners have had in obtaining LoAs. Some companies charge a bit, some charge a bunch, and some don't charge at all. Obviously, if you're planning mods, you'd be better off buying from somebody in the latter category.

[drseti]

I asked my dealer, here in the U.S., about just changing the blades on the Woodcomp prop, and they recommended, instead, that I spend $3,500 for a new, 3-blade Sensenich.

Jen,
The reason the price on the Sensenich is so high is that you can't simply install their blades into the WoodComp hub. You really need a new hub, backing plate, and maybe even a different spinner to make it work, which is a lot more expensive than just replacing blades.

FYI, WoodComp's maintenance manual requires disassembly and inspection of the whole prop after 1100 hours. (Most owners don't know, and most mechanics don't do this, but it's in the book.). So, even if I were planning to swap to a different prop, I'd wait until my WoodComp hits the 1100 hour point (or the blades are no longer serviceable) before doing so.

I don't know what the Sensenich TBO or maintenance requirements are, but would want to research that before investing in a new prop.

[roger lee]

Jim Is right,

Hi Paul,

2000 hrs for Sensenich. I can get you a new 3 blade Sensenich (depending on which one) for right around $2200-$2400. I don't know where they came up with $3500 unless it was in flight adjustable.
The other reasons for some LOA denials is they must be tested by the factory and they don't have the money or time. Props need either 50 or 100 hrs. I can't remember) of flight time on a specific engine and fuselage combo to be signed off by a factory and this isn't cheap to meet the consensus standards.

New stuff:

I'm finishing up a legal interpretation from FAA on this very subject which started about a Warp Drive prop for a CT. I have learned that many SLSA Mfg's really don't understand the rules and regs any better than some FSDO's or owners. This one is going to be a big one. The FAA is supposed to call me back this next week and hopefully Monday, but have already given a preliminary explanation. This is coming from the top people.

Bottom line so far is:
If a part, could be an instrument or prop or whatever was listed in the AOI or POH for the plane year you own as an option (i.e. a 2005 CTSW and the AOI or POH for that 2005) then you do not need an LOA to swap it out. Here is a minor catch. In the SLSA world you are not allowed to do work on the SLSA unless it is described in the maint. manual. That actually includes changing tires. You have to have either a written description on how to do a procedure or have taken a factory training class which include that procedure. What if the SLSA Mfg does not want to give you written documentation. That said they may be legally bound to do it since it is in the book. Getting that legal interp too.

Someone wanted to remove his Neuform prop from his CTSW and replace it with a Warp Drive prop. The AOI or POH that was current at that time showed the Warp as an option. FAA states then they do not need an LOA, but only needs to document it in their logbook. Here's is the other, but, In April 2006 a new revision of the AOI / POH manual came out and the Warp was not listed any longer. So any one that got a plane after April 2006 can not put a Warp on their plane without an LOA from FD, which they are not issuing any longer. The manuals aren't retro active. It would have to be very specific and say "Supersedes all other past revisions". None of them say that and your are supposed to use the manuals (AOI or POH) for your plane for that year.

FD said no to ( I fought that fight last year), but won't have any choice if someone prior to April 2006 wants to put a Warp on their plane.


I hope I made this fairly clear and didn't muddy up the description. I'll let you know what the FAA says this week.

[drseti]

Thanks for the clarification, Roger. The key point here is the year of the aircraft. As i read your post, if your aircraft's AOI and Maint manual lists an item (even as an option), then yes, I agree no LoA is required. But if another year's AOI or maint manual lists that part, it does not apply to your plane, and an LoA would be required.

Did I get that right?

[roger lee]

Hi Paul,

You got it correct. You can not mix and match plane year models and AOI / POH manuals. They must be of the same year.

[drdehave]

Hi Paul:

You stated "I replaced the blades on my Woodcomp after 1200 hours of rough student abuse - but they only cost me $850."

How and where? Did you ship it to the Woodcomp factory in Europe, or have it done here in the US? Woodcomp doesn't respond to my emails.

I recently got a new (take-off from a new aircraft) complete Woodcomp for $1300 and replaced my 950-hour Woodcomp on my Sting Sport (because of the 1,000-hr notice).

Now, I would like to get the old one overhauled, just to have a good spare on the shelf...

By the way, changing that 950-hour prop out, reduced an annoying vibration I was having to silky smoothness!

[drseti]

I was fortunate enough to find a set of new blades in-country. They had shipped with a PiperSport whose owner had ordered a different (optional) prop. I plan to overhaul my old blades myself, and keep them on the shelf as spares.

The US distributor for Woodcomp is Sportair USA. Try emailing them at [email protected]. They were responsive to me, and probably have blades in stock.