Who owns a C162 Skycatcher? Some questions could use help with...

[kicktireslightfires]

Hi Ya'll, Just bought a 162 w/about 600 hours TTSN and thoroughly enjoying it! Have some questions though that I wanted to see if anyone could provide some valuable insight on:

1. The book says 1000rpm for ground idle, but I find it idles a little rough at 1000. It likes 1100 or 1150 more. I've tried leaning and doesn't seem to make a difference. Works great in the air and always passes run-up, but doesn't want to run smoothly at 1,000rpm on the ground. Would a spark plug cleaning or replacing the spark plugs maybe fix it?

2. Anywhere to buy touch up paint? Would love to get a little bit of the white exterior and light gray and dark gray interior touch up paint.

3. The PFD restarts most of the time immediately after starting the engine (which means I can't see my RPM for about 10 seconds after starting). The Odyssey battery is only a year old and always have at least 12v when starting. Sometimes the PFD doesn't restart but usually, it does the second the engine turns over. Just a minor annoyance hoping to get to the bottom of.

4. My iPad starts charging when I fire up the plane but later in the flight it displays “not charging” on my iPad. Surely the 12v outlet is capable of charging an iPad? Anyone else have this issue?

5. Any recommendations for an avionics person in south Florida who can install a GDL-82?

6. Has anyone ever done an all the way around aileron roll in the Skycatcher? Is it possible to do in a Skycatcher? A very experienced 20,000 hour GA pilot told me any plane can go inverted for up to 5 seconds without worry of the engine quitting so if you perform an aileron roll and keep it consistent and don’t stop the roll until all the way around it’s fine. True?

Thanks in advance!

[fatsportpilot]

1. The engine is Continental O-200D and I'm not very familiar with that but most engines are a little rough at idle. Are you sure it's more rough than other O-200D engines? I did a Google and some people are saying their engine likes to idle as high as 1200.

2. No clue.

3. That's probably because the starter motor is using up so much power that the PFD shuts off. Usually you keep avionics OFF until the engine is started to avoid that and turning it on will be part of your checklist. If you need it on to view RPM and it's a glass display then you should probably fix it. Try with a different battery or something and make sure it can handle the starter.

4. There could be lots of reasons for it not charging. If the power source is "unclean" (ripple AC current) then some chargers will shut off. Also it's possible that your charger is trying to draw more than your 12V socket is rated for. It probably is not the generator being unable to supply it because an iPad requires no more than 30 watts at its fastest charge rate (I don't own one but that's what Google says) which is a little more than 2 amps at 14 volts. Try different chargers maybe?

5. No clue.

6. Pretty much any plane can fly inverted for a short time (unless it's a huge airliner with a limit of <1 negative Gs). But that's an aerobatic maneuver which is illegal in an airplane not rated for it. Unless you're in an aerobatic airplane AND you have aerobatic training then don't try an aileron roll, because you will die. It's not as simple as holding full left or right aileron and if you do that you will nose down and spin into the ground. Any bank past 60 degrees is considered aerobatic.

[drseti]

I can't amplify enough the above response to item 6. The placards and Operating Limitations sheets on just about every SLSA I've ever seen say:

All aerobatic maneuvers prohibited (including spins)

for a good reason.

[FastEddieB]

Here’s a video of fellow who successfully rolled a Cirrus. Twice before Darwin raised his ugly head.

https://youtu.be/Ej5FMj-ckvw

DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT IN A SKYCATCHER!!! Insurance rates are already high enough.

[JimParker256]

2. Anywhere to buy touch up paint? Would love to get a little bit of the white exterior and light gray and dark gray interior touch up paint.
Often there will be color codes in the very front of the aircraft logbook. If not, remove an inspection panel that is painted the coor you're seeking to match, and take that panel to a paint shop to have it color-matched. (Don't forget to put the inspection panel back on...)

3. The PFD restarts most of the time immediately after starting the engine (which means I can't see my RPM for about 10 seconds after starting). The Odyssey battery is only a year old and always have at least 12v when starting. Sometimes the PFD doesn't restart but usually, it does the second the engine turns over. Just a minor annoyance hoping to get to the bottom of.
That happens a lot with EFIS systems, and especially with the Garmin G3X. They have a minimum operating voltage, and the start process drops the voltage below the threshold to keep running, so the EFIS re-boots. As far as I know, you have three choices.
1) Install a backup battery for the G3X. (Garmin makes them, but you may not be able to legally add it to your C-162 without Cessna approval, unless you convert to E-LSA.)
2) Install a second battery that powers the essential bus, and is disconnected from the start circuit. (This is a "significant" change, and would likely require a 337 from your A&P/IA. AeroElectric connection has a bunch of pre-designed wiring diagrams for several approaches to solving this issue.)
3) Live with it. (Most economical solution, and apparently the way Cessna intended for the system to operate.

4. My iPad starts charging when I fire up the plane but later in the flight it displays “not charging” on my iPad. Surely the 12v outlet is capable of charging an iPad? Anyone else have this issue?
I would suspect the USB adapter. Try a different one, hopefully a high-quality one like the Anker adapter, or the one Sporty's sells (which also has a volt meter, which is nice).

6. Has anyone ever done an all the way around aileron roll in the Skycatcher? Is it possible to do in a Skycatcher? A very experienced 20,000 hour GA pilot told me any plane can go inverted for up to 5 seconds without worry of the engine quitting so if you perform an aileron roll and keep it consistent and don’t stop the roll until all the way around it’s fine. True?
(Deep breath...) Sorry to be so blunt, but it's a monumentally stupid idea to perform aerobatic maneuvers in a non-aerobatic aircraft. If you were to try this, you might well be the first person to ever attempt it, and it could well be the last thing you ever do... More than one person had died, or (worse yet) damaged the airplane to the point it later killed some other poor innocent soul (as was the case with the wing failure probably caused by illegal aerobatics – this incident directly led to the massive Piper Cherokee wing spar AD this year).

I see people claim that a (insert your maneuver here) can be done safely without exceeding the aircraft's design limits. Well, perhaps Bob Hoover could have done so, but let's be realistic here: I don't care who you are, you're not Bob Hoover. I know that way deep down, in a place we're reluctant to admit it, every single pilot out there holds to the belief they are in the top 25% of the pilot population when it comes to piloting skills. The irrefutable fact is that half of us are below average. And a quarter of the folks who think they're in the top 25% are actually in the bottom 25%! That's just a statistical fact! So even if you "think" you could safely pull off that maneuver, and even if you were able to do so once, who's to say you could do it a second time without screwing the pooch?

But since you DID ask the question (in a public forum, no less, where FAA-types could be observing), note that the C-162 is specifically placarded against such aerobatic maneuvers, as Dr Paul pointed out. Cessna - the designer of the aircraft - specifically told you the airplane isn't designed for those maneuvers, and not to do them in the plane. So not only would it be an FAR violation, but by signalling your interest in performing such an act, you've set the stage for a "willful violation" finding (akin to "premeditated"), so that you could expect the FAA to come down as hard as legally possible if you get caught. And if your plane has ADS-B out, they will have the data to prove what you did. In such a situation, they will absolutely throw the book at you. And rightfully so, in my opinion.

If you want to do some aerobatic flying, go find an instructor with a Citabria or Decathlon, strap on a parachute (required, per the FARs for aerobatics with more than one person aboard), and go do it in a relatively safe manner. Hopefully that will scratch the itch, and you can enjoy flying your Skycatcher "within the rules" for many years.

I know some people will think that I'm being way too harsh, and that it was only an "innocent question", but I'm damn sick and tired of reading about people killing themselves by doing stupid pilot tricks... And this one is right up at the top of the charts, in my book. If we don't speak out when we could have done so, we're de facto complicit in the act. Please don't do stupid stuff in an airplane!

[AviatorCrafty]

Doesn't the 162 have a secondary battery so that the PFD won't reboot during start? Taken from the POH:

NOTE
The PFD will be operating on the secondary battery only.
The secondary battery is not a back-up battery. It is
included in the electrical system to limit display presentation
issues that might arise during the voltage drop which
occurs during engine start

The 162 I did my sport pilot training in didn't lose the PFD during start. Now later on when I started renting G3X equipped Tecnams at a different flight school, I ran into this problem in their full G3X P92, I would crank the engine and the PFD would shut off once I engaged the starter.

[kicktireslightfires]

Appreciate all of the feedback. Thank you, all! And just to clarify, my last question was a mere curiosity. To Jim's point, I have a pretty realistic view of my abilities and don't think I'm in the top 25% of pilots or even the top 50%. (Maybe I'm in the top 90%, ha!) I'm learning and just asking questions.

[fatsportpilot]

Appreciate all of the feedback. Thank you, all! And just to clarify, my last question was a mere curiosity. To Jim's point, I have a pretty realistic view of my abilities and don't think I'm in the top 25% of pilots or even the top 50%. (Maybe I'm in the top 90%, ha!) I'm learning and just asking questions.

If you were just asking because you're curious then that's fine and an analysis of the aerodynamic capabilities of a C-162 in inverted flight would be neat but a lot of people are going to expect is that you are going to attempt this. Maybe you just want to know if it's possible to survive bad enough wake turbulence that you are forcibly flipped over and that is a legitimate question but the way you asked is similar to if an electrical engineer forum had someone ask how they can tap into a HVDC power line for a personal project.

There are lots of airplanes that can do aerobatics and lots of people who can train you which will be a lot safer.

[drseti]

This is a "significant" change, and would likely require a 337 from your A&P/IA.

FAA Form 337s only apply to certified aircraft. They cannot be issued for an SLSA (and wouldn't even be necessary for such a modification to an ELSA).

[JimParker256]

FAA Form 337s only apply to certified aircraft. They cannot be issued for an SLSA (and wouldn't even be necessary for such a modification to an ELSA).

Oops! That's embarrassing! Of course you are 100% correct on the 337s... I first wrote that, then realized it was wrong, and kept that window open while I tried to find a reference to the actual "manufacturer's approval" process or form, but then I got distracted when I got notified to go get my Covid-19 shot... In my excitement, I forgot all about correcting it before posting!

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that any significant changes on an S-LSA would require the manufacturer's approval for that change, right? (Garmin to Dynon, for example, or installing a second alternator and battery on an S-LSA that didn't come that way, or perhaps at least offer that as a factory-approved option?) Yet another reason E-LSAs are so appealing!

[AviatorCrafty]

FAA Form 337s only apply to certified aircraft. They cannot be issued for an SLSA (and wouldn't even be necessary for such a modification to an ELSA).

Oops! That's embarrassing! Of course you are 100% correct on the 337s... I first wrote that, then realized it was wrong, and kept that window open while I tried to find a reference to the actual "manufacturer's approval" process or form, but then I got distracted when I got notified to go get my Covid-19 shot... In my excitement, I forgot all about correcting it before posting!

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that any significant changes on an S-LSA would require the manufacturer's approval for that change, right? (Garmin to Dynon, for example, or installing a second alternator and battery on an S-LSA that didn't come that way, or perhaps at least offer that as a factory-approved option?) Yet another reason E-LSAs are so appealing!

I saw an E-LSA 162 for sale on Barnstormers once, had a G3X system installed instead of the stock G300.

[drseti]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that any significant changes on an S-LSA would require the manufacturer's approval for that change, right?

That's entirely correct, Jim. And some manufacturers are more agreeable to issuing Letters of Authorization than others. This is a factor prospective buyers should research and consider when choosing a particular SLSA.

[3Dreaming]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that any significant changes on an S-LSA would require the manufacturer's approval for that change, right? (Garmin to Dynon, for example, or installing a second alternator and battery on an S-LSA that didn't come that way, or perhaps at least offer that as a factory-approved option?) Yet another reason E-LSAs are so appealing!

It is not not just significant changes, but any change. It is not so much that you need approval from the manufacture, but rather that the manufacturer is required to document any change from how the airplane was delivered per ASTM. They also have to determine that the change does not remove the aircraft form compliance with the standards.

[RBearden56]

Welcome aboard new SkyCatcher Owner. I have owned my Skycatcher for over a year now and really like it. It flys better than most LSAs very little adverse yaw, not twitchy in light to moderate turbulence and landing and take off is a breeze.
My O-200D idles at 800 RPM smoothly. Rough idle could be caused by two things fuel or ignition. Fuel there are two screens (filters) one in the gasolator and one in the fuel inlet to the carb. Have a AP or LSRM check to see that these are clean. Airplanes that do not fly often also get crud in the carb and a dirty idle jet can cause rough idle as well. Ignition - your magnetos should be serviced regularly, there is a 500 hour inspection done on the mags to make sure that points, rotor, etc are in good condition and only when a problem is found parts are replaced (Inspect, Replace as Needed). Check the timing for both mags that should be identical or within 1 degree, again a AP or LSRM can do the work.

When you crank your airplane the starter draws a lot of current, some times enough to draw the battery voltage below the point the where the PFD will turn itself off and restart when the voltage is sufficient. This can be checked by monitoring the voltage while the engine is cranked. A bad starter can cause this problem.

The 12V cigarette socket is crap for charging your iPad/iPhone. I replaced the useless cigarette lighter with a usb port. (My 162 is a ELS)

I installed my GDL 82 per the cessna service bulletin, We can talk about this I have a home in Venice FL and there is a great airport next to be beach.

No acrobatics!!!!!! Your fuel system is purely gravity fed! No pumps or fuel boost pumps so other than approved maneuvers it is out of the question.

Last but not least, Cessna is a bitch to deal with for the Skycatcher SLSA, there is only one word in the Skycatcher vocabulary - NO! If you want make common sense improvements and don't plan to rent your aircraft out for flight training ELSA is the way to go. For example the GDL 82 will cost about $5000 to purchase and install for ADSB and add 4 lbs. A Garmin GTX335 is $3000 and a much easier install, no cutting new antenna mounting holes on the top and bottom of the fuselage, no weight gain, a lot of wires with expensive connectors, etc..

Look forward to talking to you soon,

Randall Bearden
Sport Pilot
LSRM Aircraft
C162 ELSA
[email protected]

[FastEddieB]

No acrobatics!!!!!!

100% absolutely agree, as already stated.

Your fuel system is purely gravity fed! No pumps or fuel boost pumps so other than approved maneuvers it is out of the question.

But that’s not the reason why.

I have hundreds of hours doing and teaching basic aerobatics in two different Citabrias, neither of which had inverted fuel or oil systems. Yet loops, aileron rolls, barrel rolls, snap rolls, and the like - all of which have the plane inverted briefly, were easily done with no problem. Accidentally pull negative g’s and the engine would sputter a little, then recover immediately once positive g’s were regained. I don’t believe 150/152 Aerobats have inverted systems either, yet are approved for most ot all of those same maneuvers.

There are still myriad reasons why aerobatics in A 162 are a bad - and possibly fatal - idea. But just not for that reason.