FAA searching hangars for fat ultralights?

[leithalweapon]

I have been hearing stories about the FAA showing up at small airports to look for over weight ultralights. I have also heard that they are giving fines to the airport operators if they find one.

I read a blog yeaterday that told about a field in the middle of nowhere. It said that Homeland security cut the locks on the hangers and when they left they called the airport operator and told him he needed new locks.

Anybody have a first hand experience with this?

[Jim Stewart]

I'm wondering why the FAA would care about aircraft in hangers. There's all manner of non-legally-flyable aircraft in hangers everywhere.

[Cub flyer]

They would have to see one taxi in to do anything.

Some FSDO's have the Gestapo mentality. So I would not be surprised.


From experience I would say the airport operator has no control other than airplanes owned by them.

I think it would be illegal for an operator to prevent someone from flying their airplane whether it was a legal airplane or not.

There was a case a while back where the airport operator parked a van across the runway to keep someone from flying out due to illegal activities.

The pilot tried taking off anyway and hit the van. Sued the airport operator.

There is a flight instructor at the airport next to ours who feels it is his "DUTY" to report anything he sees as illegal or unsafe to the FAA.

He then started showing up at our airport weekends in our parking lot sitting in his car watching.... waiting.... Never would get out or say hello to anyone.

First person we had asked to leave in many years

He can go watch at his airport. I don't have time for his BS.

[CharlieTango]

the only reasonable way to look for overweight ultralights would be to weigh them.

hard to imagine without a warrant.

[SWeidemann]

This sounds like an urban myth to me. I expect the FAA has more things to do than snoop around for aircraft that might not be legal. My hangar partner has been having a frustrating time getting his ELSA inspected for certification, so why would they be wasting time on this stuff!?

[Cub flyer]

Actually it would be quite easy because most overweight UL are two place machines.

Any two place airplane taxis in with no N number it is illegal.

Lots of Kolbs, Drifters, Quicksilvers, M squared, Challengers fall into this.

Looks like an ultralight but is not. A lot of the people flying them don't even know they are not legal. Most never had a rating or even any dual instruction.

[CharlieTango]

Actually it would be quite easy because most overweight UL are two place machines.

Any two place airplane taxis in with no N number it is illegal.

Lots of Kolbs, Drifters, Quicksilvers, M squared, Challengers fall into this.

Looks like an ultralight but is not. A lot of the people flying them don't even know they are not legal. Most never had a rating or even any dual instruction.

my challenger was single seated but still "fat" to make it capable in the high sierra nevada.

[jlong16]

There is no chance govt would violate people's privacy in such an embarrassing manner. The FAA can have really hard to deal with folks, but they are not stupid. Difficult. Sometimes miopic, but not stupid.
On the other hand, I wish they'd try that with my hanger. I would enjoy the resulting legal award that would follow.

[leithalweapon]

You aren't the one who will get in trouble. It will be the unknowing airport owner who will have the fear of God put in him. That is what I'm worried about. Lets face it, the government can basically do whatever they want they have more money than you do. Can you give me the definition of a 'Legal Award'? Are you the same guy who wants to sue everbody that crosses you?

The more I think about it. I want some Legal Reward! Woo Hoo! Legal reward for everybody, OHHHHH Yeaaaaah!

[Cub flyer]

unknowing airport owner?

Exactly what are they going to do? I have gone to bat with FAA before and won. It is possible if you are right.

If I am wrong and they can prove it violates the FAR's then shame on me.

Public airport operator cannot stop anyone from flying their own airplane.

TSA has been here a couple times to audit the flight school. No problems.

Drug test people same story.


The people that worry me are Labor and industry inspectors. There is what can shut most airports down in a flash.

[leithalweapon]

I guess nobody should worry about the FAA. It sounds like they don't have much control at all. I'll tell all the people with illegal planes not to worry. I guess I'm just a worry wart. To bad I wasted all that time getting my overweight ultralight converted to E-LSA. Darn.

[rsteele]

I think you are mixing apples and oranges. Performing a search without a warrant has nothing to do with enforcing regulations with regard to flying a non-registered plane. As long as the plane isn't being pre-flighted, or actually flying, you are just storing a lawn ornament in your hanger. The airport may have regulations against this, but why would the FAA care? Its like storing an unregistered car in your garage. Pull the car onto the street, you may get a ticket. Start to pre-flight the plane and the FAA may have a lot to say about it. In fact you could claim you are going to piece the aircraft out; sell the engine, instruments, parachute etc individually. That would be a perfectly logical thing to do with an unregistered fat ultralight.

Ron

[leithalweapon]

Your totaly correct. Unfortunetly planes don't perform well on the highway. We could go on for days like this, keep em comming.

[CharlieTango]

virtually any fat ultralight can be ( most are ) trucked or trailered

[Cub flyer]

I can see where I was not clear enough above. Let me rephrase my question.

What can the FAA do to an airport owner if a fat ultralight is found at their airport?

Why would they hassle the airport owner?

The state licenses the airports. It has nothing to do with FAA. FAA publishes the guidelines for clearances and specs for the airport markings

The state is the enforcer.

PA Bureau of Aviation.
1. BOA Inspects my airport. Public use, privately owned. They check obstacle clearances, markings, proper paperwork, traffic pattern, changes of infrastructure and a whole other bunch of paperwork.
2.BOA Issues the airport license and can take it away. If the airport does not meet criteria and has grandfather clauses even a majority change in stockholders can give them grounds to pull the license.


The only time FAA is involved is if I want to change the runway length, traffic pattern etc. Anything published in the AFD. These are filed with and a determination is made if it is a hazard. Nobody comes in person.
engineering data and feasibility study is sent. paperwork comes back. Most of the time it is only sending them a form with a sketch of what is going to happen. I have no instrument approach. If there was one then there would be a lot more paperwork to do.

How is a FAA inspector finding a fat ultralight here going to affect me?

Around here most people with fat ultralights fly out of their yards, private strip etc.

If they don't have a license, no insurance, no medical, no N number, no airworthiness certificate what can they take away. They knew they were illegal before ELSA. What has changed? Fines and rules have not.

The closest case is Larry Waters who flew the ballons and lawn chair over California. He only got in trouble for violating LAX airspace and was arrested by LAPD Fined and they took his lawn chair.

He violated the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 but that is so broad it is hard to find anything. If he did not bust LAX class B nobody would have cared.

More likely the state rules will be the ones enforced. here are the rules for California.. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/planning/aeron ... autics.pdf


Here is a city ordinance http://www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Ordi ... Title1.asp

Even if you are well within the FAR's there are many states and local governments that may have different rules.

Triggering these is usually by buzzing or being annoying. Or an accident.