Pin Up Ercoupe

[hirschr]

Let me know when you're ready to sell it.

I'll put you on the list SportPilot, I had two offers during the recent Poker Run! Don't hold your breath, until this one is flying I probably won't be looking to sell.

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[FastEddieB]

The guesses so far were not the reason my neighbor gave.

Anyone else?

[SportPilot]

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[hirschr]

Because you can't land in a cross wind without rudder pedals.

Common misconception, I could see that being the reason.

Or maybe the lack of a shoulder harness, or maybe you neighbor is a big feller and they couldn't get in under gross?

[MrMorden]

Because you can't land in a cross wind without rudder pedals.

I'm sure you know this, but the Ercoupe lands very well in crosswinds, it just touches down crabbed. The gear is designed to take it. For what I've heard the Ercoupe is one of the easiest airplanes to land in a crosswind.

There are youtube videos of guys putting them down in 20+ knot crosswinds with no drama.

[SportPilot]

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[hirschr]

I had a student get his Private in an Ercoupe in 1968.

Sweet!
One more guess: high sink rate maybe?

[FastEddieB]

OK.

I know the suspense is killing you!

Remember, I'm only the messenger.

He says he refuses to fly in an Ercoupe because of concern over the tools available to the pilot in the event of an engine out.

IOW, most pilots have a decent chance of making in into a selected field, but most pilots have been trained in the use of flaps and slips to accomplish that task. I certainly know my training had me erring on the high side on final, using full flaps and then slipping to pinpoint my landing spot.

In an Ercoupe, a pilot has neither of those options - too high and there's no way to slip (without rudder pedals) and no flaps - so too high and you're screwed and need to quickly assess other options, which may be worse than the field right in front of you that you just overshot.

Now, nothing he said is wrong, exactly, but none of that crossed my mind in accepting a ride from Randy. At the most, however, I think an Ercoupe pilot who's proficient in setting up approaches in other planes may want to invest a bit of extra training time in getting proficient doing so in the Ercoupe with fewer tools available.

[drseti]

If you've been trained to land an Ercoupe, it's a non-issue. Since a high angle of attack stalls the wing root but not the outer ends where the ailerons are, and there is limited elevator authority, it's very difficult to force a full stall. So, if high, you haul back on the yoke and kinda mush down (with full aileron control) until at a safe altitude. Then, you do kinda a reverse flare (lower the nose to break the sink rate, and land)

[MrMorden]

OK.

I know the suspense is killing you!

Remember, I'm only the messenger.

He says he refuses to fly in an Ercoupe because of concern over the tools available to the pilot in the event of an engine out.

IOW, most pilots have a decent chance of making in into a selected field, but most pilots have been trained in the use of flaps and slips to accomplish that task. I certainly know my training had me erring on the high side on final, using full flaps and then slipping to pinpoint my landing spot.

In an Ercoupe, a pilot has neither of those options - too high and there's no way to slip (without rudder pedals) and no flaps - so too high and you're screwed and need to quickly assess other options, which may be worse than the field right in front of you that you just overshot.

Now, nothing he said is wrong, exactly, but none of that crossed my mind in accepting a ride from Randy. At the most, however, I think an Ercoupe pilot who's proficient in setting up approaches in other planes may want to invest a bit of extra training time in getting proficient doing so in the Ercoupe with fewer tools available.

Higher risk, but you could pitch up for slower speed to get a fast sink rate going, then pitch back down when you are on the glide path you like.

EDIT: The Doc beat me to it.

[hirschr]

Yep. What they said - just make sure you give yourself enough altitude to break out of the high decent rate mush (~200ft or so). The other thing an Ercoupe has going for it in that regard is that you can land them at 2X the minimum airspeed and because they have 0 degrees incidence on the ground they will stay put (assuming your tail height is correct).

[hirschr]

And lets not forget the "falling leaf": from http://www.ercoupe.org/ercoupers_faq.htm

Low airspeed, high sink-rate approaches
[Pre-warn your passengers (especially if they're pilots) before doing the following maneuvers.] According to the Ercoupe Instruction Manual, if you are a little bit too high, you can lower the nose and land fast, using braking to stop in less distance than would be taken to hold it off to a minimum flying speed touchdown. The book says, "the airplane may be set on the ground at up to twice the minimum speed, and as long as the control wheel is not pulled back will stay on the ground. After contact, the wheel should therefore, either be held still or eased forward gently, preferably the later." [Text color red per Ercoupe Instruction Manual.]

If you need to lose lots of altitude quickly, the factory tested and approved method (it's in the Ercoupe Instruction Manual) is something you should use cautiously and deliberately because it doesn't leave much margin for wind shear or mistake. The book says, "If the approach has been made at too high an altitude, the flight path can be steepended by rolling the airplane from side to side, dipping each wing 20 to 30 degrees. If the altitude is sufficiently high, this can be done satisfactorily with the wheel full back and height is lost quite rapidly, but, because of the high vertical velocity attained, the airspeed reading should be increased to 60 mph or above at an altitude of about 200 feet, and the flight direction should be held staight from about 50 feet altitude to the ground."

Unpracticed people get in trouble with this because you need to push the wheel forward while high enough to regain airspeed (60 to 70 MPH) to flare for landing. This means at about 200 feet above the ground, you push forward and drop the nose. (If you do the "falling leaf maneuver" and say "wheeeee" as you drop the nose, you might get a reputation around the airport, and it may not be favorable to your preferred image.)

If you wait too long there is no time to get the airspeed up and you land very hard. People who don't drop the nose at the right time, the right amount, or who get wind shear at the wrong time, can fold under the landing gear nose wheel and cause major damage -- worse is possible though rare. You can make a very steep approach this way, but there isn't any margin for error. When you push the envelope this way, you'd darn well better not be pushing it in another way, like gross weight or center of gravity. Remember, unless it's a power loss emergency, you can always go around.

[MrMorden]

BTW, I have done the same thing with my CTSW. I usually am around 52-54kt solo on final. If I'm a little high but not enough to go into a big slip, I can pitch to about 48kt and the plane will start to sink. I maintain that until I'm where I want to be, then pitch it back to 52kt.

It works great, but I only do it in calm wind conditions. I would not want to wander into a stall under gusty conditions.

[ct4me]

Tucson's Jessica Fox flies an Aerocoupe... without arms!
https://www.rightfooted.com/

[SportPilot]

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