Moving from Sport to Private Pilot?

[Docwatson]

Has anyone moved from Sport to Private license? I have had my sport license since September but am thinking about continuing on to private. Has anyone done that and how did it work?
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Ferrari 312P History

[SportplanesFlorida.com]

Has anyone moved from Sport to Private license? I have had my sport license since September but am thinking about continuing on to private. Has anyone done that and how did it work?

We have helped several Sport Pilots move to Private Pilot. In fact, we've had two students make the transition to PPL in only one-week after completing our two-week accelerated Sport Pilot Program.

You'll need ten t/o & landings to a full-stop at night, one dual cross-country at night, a total of 3 hours solo cross-country (see Sec. 61.109), three hours under the hood, and a total of 40 hours flight time (10 hours solo). 3 landings at a field with an operating control tower if your Sport Pilot did not include this.

Jim Julius

[tadel001]

Unfortunately, under the new management of AFS 610, you will also likely need all instruction to be applied towards your PPL to be provided by a CFI not SPI. This is a current hole in the regs and will hopefully be addressed in the new rule.

[CTflyer]

Unfortunately, under the new management of AFS 610, you will also likely need all instruction to be applied towards your PPL to be provided by a CFI not SPI. This is a current hole in the regs and will hopefully be addressed in the new rule.

Yikes! where did that come from? You mean if all your sport pilot dual training was logged under a Sport Pilot Instructor, none of that dual training counts toward PPL? Even if you've obtained your Sport Pilot ticket, you have to do all your dual training "over" again with a CFI if you want to move to PPL?

Tom

[scottj]

We have had students go from Sport to Private. Due to the way we train, we only had to add the night and instrument hours. Our regular Sport Pilots are trained like we would train a Private Pilot (towers, Class B, long cross country flights, weather, safety, CRM, etc). Our goal is to turn out safe and competent pilots, not simply to get them licensed in just 20 hours.

Yes, it is true you must use a CFI and not a Sport CFI if you want your training hours to count toward higher ratings. This is one more reason, in a list of many, why the standards for Sport CFI need to be raised by the FAA to match those of CFI. It is nuts to think a 150 hour Private Pilot is qualified to now teach student pilots, and call himself a CFI. That is like letting teenagers teach other teens how to safely drive a car. Let the buyer beware, shop wisely for your flight school or you may be buying it twice.

[tadel001]

The interpretation is comes from AFS 610 and is a change in their philosophy. There is no definitive answer and I think this could be challenged in an administrative action but who wants to got that far. The issue was raised by a number of us in our response to the Notice of Proposed Rule Making. I think the FAA understands the reasoning and will consider providing a definitive answer.

[Jim Stewart]

It is nuts to think a 150 hour Private Pilot is qualified to now teach student pilots, and call himself a CFI. That is like letting teenagers teach other teens how to safely drive a car. Let the buyer beware, shop wisely for your flight school or you may be buying it twice.

Absolutely positively true. After pounding several thousand dollars down the light sport training rathole, I totally agree.

Another issue that hasn't been brought up is the medical. I know nothing about your health, but if there's the slightest possibility that you might fail the 3rd class medical, you need to be sure it never happened paperworkwise, else you can't fly light sport until it's resolved. Explain the situation to the examiner before the medical and reach an understanding that you first want an informal physical. If you pass, have it documented as a 3rd class medical. Note that I am *not* suggesting that anyone be a PIC that is not medically fit. If you have issues that should ground you, don't fly. Just be aware of the rules.

[Docwatson]

Unfortunately, under the new management of AFS 610, you will also likely need all instruction to be applied towards your PPL to be provided by a CFI not SPI. This is a current hole in the regs and will hopefully be addressed in the new rule.

I actually read that the other day. Lucky for me my SP instructor holds his Private Pilots license with 800 hours. He is a Sport CFI but I went over it with him and he said I was good to go. Only problem really is that I am color blind. So I may be restricted to day flight only but that would simply do away with the Night requirements as well. I will try to get around it but I know I will fail the color blind DOT test. I can't fly nights now so if thats the way it is then so be it but if I can fly nights I would like to. Currently I need 3 hours under the hood, the 10 TO&L to full stop and the Night Cross Country. I have everything else. I am 39 also so I can hold that medical for 5 years. I called the doctors office and they said obviously I would fail the color blind test but that would simply give me a restriction. Then I would be given a sheet with alternative color tests. If I pass one then I could get the restriction waived.
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No2 vaporizers

[scottj]

"I actually read that the other day. Lucky for me my SP instructor holds his Private Pilots license with 800 hours. He is a Sport CFI but I went over it with him and he said I was good to go. "

I think you need to revisit this. You are not good to go if your instructor is only a SP CFI and not a full CFI (and you want to go on to be a Private Pilot later). I suggest that you call (heaven forbid) the FAA yourself and clarify this, or perhaps AOPA or the EAA.

Respectfully,
Scott

[Docwatson]

"I actually read that the other day. Lucky for me my SP instructor holds his Private Pilots license with 800 hours. He is a Sport CFI but I went over it with him and he said I was good to go. "

I think you need to revisit this. You are not good to go if your instructor is only a SP CFI and not a full CFI (and you want to go on to be a Private Pilot later). I suggest that you call (heaven forbid) the FAA yourself and clarify this, or perhaps AOPA or the EAA.

Respectfully,
Scott

I called my Sport CFI and asked him about this Saturday. He said that was incorrect and that his flight hours do count towards private. I had asked him this before I started Sport. Correct me please but the article I read stated that the hours would not count if you used a SPORT CFI that did not hold a Private license. You can be a SPORT CFI without holding a Private license. My CFI stated that his hours counted towards my private if I continued on. I'm only going on what I read and we he said. Anyone knowing better please let me know.
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Vapir one vaporizer

[scottj]

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... kup/61.183

A SP CFI who is a 150 hour Private Pilot most likely does not have the instrument rating, and certainly does not have the Commercial Pilot certificate that a CFI is requried to have. Therefore, how can he sign you off for a higher rating than that which he is qualified for? Better safe than sorry, or you will be buying flight lessons twice.

The solo student pilot who flys his cross country flights, if he goes farther than 25 miles and uses 50 miles, can count those hours toward a PPL cross country requirment if he later advances from SP. This is why we make our SP students fly longer cross country flights. It will save them money in the long run.

[tadel001]

The issue with SPI instruction counting to PP license is as a result of where they placed the SPI certificate, i.e. not in Subpart K. I believe this was a technical oversight but none the less it is the basis of AFS610s position. If you are relying on your SPI to be the basis of your PP, you will likely be very unhappy when you submit your 8710 to the FAA. They do look up certificate numbers. Good luck.

[Docwatson]

The issue with SPI instruction counting to PP license is as a result of where they placed the SPI certificate, i.e. not in Subpart K. I believe this was a technical oversight but none the less it is the basis of AFS610s position. If you are relying on your SPI to be the basis of your PP, you will likely be very unhappy when you submit your 8710 to the FAA. They do look up certificate numbers. Good luck.

Oh no I'm not relying on my SPI to instruct me for PP. He has a partner that is a CFI for PP. He will be doing the remainder of my instruction. I am just trying to make sure that all the dual received etc counts towards PP. The night flying, IFR etc will be done by a PP CFI.
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Camry

[CTflyer]

Gentlemen -

I got frustrated reading the "yes vs no" comments over the years, so I contacted EAA's Sport Pilot office about this. Here's a copy of my email and EAA's reply. Note that EAA says if the sport instruction was given by an "authorized instructor", it can all count toward PPL later. But any instruction *after* sport pilot certification, must be given by a full CFI.

* * * * *


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom M.
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:11 AM
To: info services
Subject: sport pilot dual instruction

Good day.

If I'm taking instruction toward Sport Pilot, from a SP-CFI (a
PPL who's certificated as a sport pilot instructor), do my hours of
instruction count toward full PPL when I decide to go farther than
Sport Pilot?

* * * * *

From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: sport pilot dual instruction
Date: February 19, 2009 5:54:57 PM EST


Tom,

Thank you for the e-mail. Yes it does, the rationale behind this
opinion is as follows:

A private pilot is required in 61.109 to have the following "...log at
least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight
training from an authorized instructor...". Key word in this
requirement is authorized instructor for which the definition is: "...A
person who holds a current flight instructor certificate issued under
part 61 of this chapter when conducting ground training or flight
training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her
flight instructor certificate...".

When a SP-CFI provided the flight training, it was for the purpose of
obtaining a sport pilot certificate; the SP-CFI was an authorized
instructor in this case. The key is the training received and logged
was by an authorized instructor and countable toward a sport pilot
certificate. Once the sport pilot certificate is obtained, the person
can then go for a private pilot certificate; all previous logged time
can be used to meet the experience requirement. However, any new
flight instruction required must now be given by a traditional CFI with SEL
rating.

Timm

Timm Bogenhagen, EAA #379292
Senior Aviation Specialist
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.6831
Fax: 920.426.4873
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 27 - August 2, 2009

[tadel001]

I am not trying to rain on your parade but EAA has no authority. I would love to accept Tom's rationale. Unfortunately, his rationale doesn't trump AFS-610. AOPA has the same problem. They review the regs and come up with their own theories. I would suggest someone call AFS-610 to see what they are saying now. It has been a long discuss for over two years.

I think SPI should count towards a license if the SP instruction was given for an SP ticket. I think AFS-610's reading is close minded and not beneficial to the aviation community. With that said, they are the ones that guide OKC when issuing certificates.

I think everyone concerned about this issue should call AFS-610!! They are thinking about re-writing the rule.