Flight Design Is this Fair for a 5 year old airplane?

[ussyorktown]

My plane built in 2007. It just developed collapse within the right aleron and trim tab. FD says a new one would cost over $8,000. They have offered to send me new ones for $800. Is this fair? (not quite what Light Speed Headphones would do).

[zaitcev]

Why didn't you continue the old thread for the context?

[ussyorktown]

Does that bring it back to life? Maybe admin will fix this for me. (when he gets home from work)

[FastEddieB]

Well, if the plane is out of warranty, anything they choose to do to lessen the pain is out of the goodness of their hearts, so to speak.

I think 90% off the full list price is pretty fair.

[3Dreaming]

Normally they just cover 50% and you pay the shipping. Not bad when you consider it is a enviromental or care issue, and not a manufacturing defect.

[ussyorktown]

Implied Warranty of Merchantability-the airplane I bought is as as good as any other airplane. Obviously, the airplane you sold me didn't do that so they have breached that warranty and I never waived it. So, "make me whole" and pay to make my airplane correct.
So called Warranties are actually the seller's way to weasel out of something. Thats why they always brag about their glorious 'LIMITED WARRANTY!"
I never saw any such limitation and never agreed to absolve them of the Warranty of Merchantability. But as this will get my airplane out of the airplane hospital faster, then I'll yield.

In common law jurisdictions, an implied warranty is a contract law term for certain assurances that are presumed to be made in the sale of products or real property, due to the circumstances of the sale. These assurances are characterized as warranties irrespective of whether the seller has expressly promised them orally or in writing. They include an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, an implied warranty of merchantability for products, implied warranty of workmanlike quality for services, and an implied warranty of habitability for a home.
The warranty of merchantability is implied, unless expressly disclaimed by name, or the sale is identified with the phrase "as is" or "with all faults." To be "merchantable", the goods must reasonably conform to an ordinary buyer's expectations, i.e., they are what they say they are. For example, a fruit that looks and smells good but has hidden defects would violate the implied warranty of merchantability if its quality does not meet the standards for such fruit "as passes ordinarily in the trade". In Massachusetts consumer protection law, it is illegal to disclaim this warranty on household goods sold to consumers etc. IN THE INSTANT MATTER, WHEN I PURCHASED THE AIRPLANE LAST YEAR I EXPECTED THAT IT WOULD HAVE GOOD WINGS AND TRIM TABS-therefore the Warranty of Merchanability has been breached by seller.
The warranty of fitness for a particular purpose is implied when a buyer relies upon the seller to select the goods to fit a specific request. For example, this warranty is violated when a buyer asks a mechanic to provide snow tires and receives tires that are unsafe to use in snow. This implied warranty can also be expressly disclaimed by name, thereby shifting the risk of unfitness back to the buyer. IN THE INSTANT MATTER, I CONTACTED SELLER FOR A LIGHT SPORT AIRPLANE THAT CONFORMS AND WOULD CONFORM IN THE FUTURE TO FAA REGULATIONS REGARDING STRUCTURE AND SAFETY.

United States
In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.
Under US law, goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:
The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
They must be fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.
If the merchandise is sold with an express "guarantee", the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability will fill the gaps left by that guarantee. If the terms of the express guarantee are not specified, they will be considered to be the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability. The UCC allows sellers to disclaim the implied warranty of merchantability, provided the disclaimer is made conspicuously and the disclaimer explicitly uses the term "merchantability" in the disclaimer.[1] Some states, however, have implemented the UCC such that this can not be disclaimed.

So when you get a so called "warranty" from a seller, it is really a shell game he is playing with you. He boasts that he is giving you a LIMITED WARRANTY. So, he will jam this down your throat if he is able:

THIS WARRANTY IS EXPRESSLY IN LIEU OF OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND OTHER WARRANTIES ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE OR TRADE.

THERE ARE NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, WHICH EXTEND BEYOND THE DESCRIPTION ON THE FACE HEREOF.

THERE ARE NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, THAT EXTEND BEYOND THE WARRANTY PERIOD SET FORTH HEREIN. THE WARRANTY HEREIN SHALL BE VOID IF THE PRODUCT HAS BEEN ALTERED, ABUSED, OR MISUSED, STORED IMPROPERLY OR NOT CLEANED IN ACCORDANCE WITH CLEANING INSTRUCTIONS.

So there, you got $300 worth of good legal advise so merchants can't push you around by talking about "warranty" and "out of warranty" to try to screw you. You've got rights, pilot! (Thank the thousand year old Common Law)

[CharlieTango]

How can flight design be looked to in this seller's warranty when you didn't buy the plane from flight design?

You make it sound like I can let my wings melt, sell the plane to you and then you can look to flight design to be made whole. Don't' sound right.

[ussyorktown]

I purchased it from a dealer of Flight Design in Michigan.

If it was an "environmental" issue that doesn't get FD off the hook.

Shyster: So, FD Engineer, don't most airplanes fly into wet alkaline or acidic atmospheres?"
FD: "yes."
Shyster: "So FD Engineer, you would agree that an extremely large amount of airplanes (perhaps ALL OF THEM), and even light sport airplanes DO NOT react in this way to so called environmental conditions by puckering."
FD: "yes."

Judge: Warranty of Merchanability has been breached. Make ussyorktown whole by giving him new parts and paying his mechanic to put them on because all other airplanes do not have this problem and THEREFORE, such an airplane would not pass in the market without objection."
Now you owe me $600 for legal advise.

[FastEddieB]

What was the length of the warranty?

[ussyorktown]

The warranty of merchanability (unless modified) has no "end" to it.
Please understand that what you get from a merchant when he boasts he is giving you a "warranty" is actually HIS LIMITING OF THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANABILITY AND WARRANTY FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
If he did not disclaim them, (as here) he must honor them by law.
A so called "limited warranty" is the merchants way to screw you by using the words "warranty" in the screwing.
The more accurate term is "disclaiming your common law rights to a good product BY limiting your warranty for merchanatbility and for a particular purpose (and calling such a screwing of you a "LIMITED WARRANTY")."

It's time you learned the truth about "Limited Warranty."

By the way, car sellers and others put this all into the smalll print and then tell you to initial away your rights (making it look TO YOU like you are endorsing your rights.) If a salesman wants you to "initial here, intial there, initial there too" THEN YOU MUST READ WHAT YOU ARE GIVING UP PILOT!
So what I do, instead of waiving my rights, write into the space NOT WAIVED NOT WAIVED NOT WAIVED.
They never notice that. I've never had to fight them on it but what the hell are you giving me in return for my giving up my right to the warranty of merchantability and for a particular purpose?

By the way, every time some stuff is delivered then the sweaty smellly man will hand me a paper that is a full page of small writing. Most people are told to sign AND DO saying that the delivery company delivered it in 100% perfect condition. How would you know if that is true and he should be delivering it whether you sign or not. What is he giving up to take away THIS RIGHT of yours to hold him accountable.
What does ussyorktown do? I ALWAYS write in that signature box NOT INSPECTED. or NOT SIGNED

the smelly man just sees ink in the box, smiles that he's pulled another fast one of a gullible pilot and goes to the next delivery.
(Now yoiu owe me $900 in legal advise).
I know some of you think I"m an asshole and one certain days I agree but PLEASE READ WHAT I'VE WRITTEN and think about it every time someone hands you something to SIGN or "just initial here." It is all to their benefit and NONE TO YOURS.

[CharlieTango]

In my experience there is a big difference between buying a new vehicle with a factory warranty vs a used vehicle [and arguing that the factory is obligated to warranty this used vehicle based on common law.]

Good luck on that

Actually Flight Design stepped up and gave you a 90% discount, if that was me I would be grateful.

[ussyorktown]

My rights were fought for by soldiers and sailors before me and by my own injuries and I don't give em up for nothin'
Ain't grateful that FD has screwed me out of $800 for their bad design, choise of materials, whatever. Just faster to get my baby out of the airplane hospital.
Why have Americans become such sheep?
Ignore the law and waive your rights. I don't care. I showed you the path and you can do what you want. (that's always been the way I handle such doubting Thomas')

"Good luck on using the common law" Gee~ File a lawsuit in any small claims court. The judge knows all about this mysterious "common law" and is bound to follow it to a T. This thousand year old common law has been codified in the Uniform Commercial Code and the judge knows all about that too.

United States
In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.
Under US law, goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:
The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
They must be fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.

Stand up straight and don't let them scare you.

[FastEddieB]

The warranty of merchanability (unless modified) has no "end" to it.

What does that mean to a layman?

If the clutch on my Element goes out after 6 years and is out of warranty, what obligation does Honda have to me?

[3Dreaming]

If you bought a used 2007 model car that you left the windows down in the rain and the radio got wet and quit. Would you expect the manufacture to replace the radio? If you cleaned the bugs off the front with steel wool should they fix the paint too?

There are 2 things that I know of that cause the problem you have. One is not using the correct cleaning suppies. The other is leaving the airplane set outside unprotected from the elements.

[ussyorktown]

What does that mean to a layman?

If the clutch on my Element goes out after 6 years and is out of warranty, what obligation does Honda have to me?

None. You sheeplishly accepted the "Limited Warranty" that dissolved the Warranty of Merchanability and for a Particular Purpose. BUT, if most of the clutches go out after 6 year or many, then the merchant has breached anything. It lasted as long as other clutches.