Six seats, under 6000lb, day/night VFR on driver's license?

[David Pavlich]

You're probably right, FFF. Demand is driven as much by operating costs as it is by purchase price.

It doesn't change the fact that operational costs of the LSA class is very attractive. With the advent of the FI Rotax and it sipping around 4gph at cruise is sure inviting!!

David

[newamiga]

I too wonder if they will let new PP's get certified without a medical. I don't see why not based on the wording of the bill. It just says operate as the PIC of an aircraft that meets all of those criteria. Since it doesn't call out any specific certificate it really opens up that question. I don't see why you couldn't just do a PP check ride without the need for the medical with the restrictions on the cert of 6000 pounds, 250 kts, 5 pax, etc. It also does't say in the bill anything about if you failed a medical as it does in the SP rules. That is another interesting question. Lots of questions and too few answers.

Carl

[drseti]

I suspect that if congress forces FAA's hand by passing this, FAA will comply, but in the most restrictive way they can get away with. So, let's hope the legislation is very clearly (and generously) worded.

[FlyingForFun]

Delete

[Jack Tyler]

It's early days. A bill has to become sausage before it escapes its committees and sees the House or Senate floor.

"I suspect that if congress forces FAA's hand by passing this, FAA will comply, but in the most restrictive way they can get away with."
That is the norm. Authorization, requirement, guideline, funding - those are established in a bill. Responsibility for complying & administering - the agency directed to do so by the bill.

"I think the LSAs can still compete well in the two seat VFR space. Many of them have bigger useful loads than similar certified airplanes"
Except that's not where the vacuum on LSA demand will come from. Most Part 23 a/c in the used marketplace are not two-seaters, they have four seats. They offer useful loads that typically allow them to fly with 2 or 3 passengers and full (4-5 hr) fuel. or with 2 passengers, full fuel and gobs of baggage. That means the family vacation, the multiple college visits, the weekend holiday, the round-robin business trip, the buddies-for-the-weekend escape and many other diverse, desirable uses of a light a/c become possibile.

"It doesn't change the fact that operational costs of the LSA class is very attractive."
Quite true. So there sits the potential a/c buyer, pondering his/her choice: $50K-$100K for a used S-LSA with its newer airframe & avionics and its more limited utility or $30K-$50K for a used Cherokee, Cheetah or Skyhawk. How likely is the buyer to choose in favor of paying double the purchase price (or accepting more than double the loan burden, given the same down payment) for less performance? Especially given the wide variety of used Part 23 a/c vs. the more limited selection of used LSA a/c.

I'm still trying to identify who will be the opponents of such a proposal, other than the lethargy and dysfunction of Congress itself.

[David Pavlich]

I suspect that if congress forces FAA's hand by passing this, FAA will comply, but in the most restrictive way they can get away with. So, let's hope the legislation is very clearly (and generously) worded.

I was thinking about this. One way that the FAA can slow down the end process is in the development of testing standards. What will be said about the training? It seems to me that it would be fairly straight forward. Since it is daylight VFR only, there would be no night or instrument training for the private certificate. The other standards for the present PP certificate would remain. What do you guys that are instructors think?

And just to get ahead of the game, what about insurance for the new pilot that decides to get his or her complex and/or high performance endorsement and beyond that, a multi engine rating? I bring this up only because I've read that pilots wanting to move up to a twin usually have a "demand" from insurers that require an instrument rating to insure a twin. Certainly, this is cart before the horse, but just some grist for the mill.

David

[dstclair]

Short-term, this is going to damage new LSA sales due to uncertainty. It took around a year after the EAA/AOPA proposal for things to pick up to a slow pace (from anemic). I'd expect the same market reaction to the proposed law.

Next, I'm not overly concerned about non-US manufacturers since the US market has not been a major buyer of their products the last few years anyway. They will continue serving the markets that have demand and will ship to the US if the local market heats up. I do believe the small US-only manufacturers, other than Cubs (which have a cult-like following), will be severely challenged. ICON will probably continue to prosper with their currently-vaporware A5.

Used market for certified planes will heat up and with demand, comes price increases. I'm less certain on any significant drop in used LSAs. They are relatively new and some may still have outstanding loan balances. This may provide a soft floor for awhile.

Still -- getting/keeping more pilots in the air with the plane of the choice is an overall good thing.

[Chemguy]

"Still -- getting/keeping more pilots in the air with the plane of the choice is an overall good thing."

Very well put, and exactly on the mark. I believe it can be done safely as well.

Charles

[cfiiguy]

how would this affect sub part h instructors without a medical? would the "for hire" get us?
i gave up years ago trying to outguess the feds.

[drseti]

how would this affect sub part h instructors without a medical? would the "for hire" get us?

That's the reasonable and conservative interpretation, I guess.

i gave up years ago trying to outguess the feds.

You're right. I shouldn't guess.

[Hambone]

Drooling over the cheap Cherokee Sixes... can rip out the back seats and fit two motorcycles and sleeping bags in...

[FastEddieB]

I've gotten two full-sized road bikes in the back of a Grumman Traveler.

Bicycles, that is.

[N918KT]

This DL medical proposal for PPL is very tempting for me, but I think if I go for it, I feel that I would betray the LSA/Sport Pilot movement.

[MrMorden]

This DL medical proposal for PPL is very tempting for me, but I think if I go for it, I feel that I would betray the LSA/Sport Pilot movement.

Not betraying it, declaring victory and moving on.

[drseti]

The driver's license medical would never have even been considered, had it not worked well and safely for sport pilots. So, we can think of ourselves as pioneers, having paved the way for others to follow. That's the ultimate in success, IMHO.