light sport IFR

[3Dreaming]

Any SLSA with a Rotax certified engine and a navcom radio can be flown IFR. Of course, no Sport Pilot can fly it. To fly under an IFR flight plan or fly in IMC the PIC must be a PP with an IR.

I plan to upgrade my radio to a Garmin navcom and train in non IMC in my CTLSi in a few months. That's anticipating the certified Flight Design C4 and being able to fly full IMC with an instrument rating.

ASTM standards prohibit flight in IMC until IFR standards are established. The FAA also adopted this policy in 2010.

[dstclair]

But SLSAs built before the 2010 ASTM prohibition can be flown IMC if ( and it's a big if) the operating limitations allow it and the pilot is appropriately rated.

[CTLSi]

......

[AJChenMPH]

And to add another wrinkle, doesn't the manufacturer have to bless the IFR "rating" (I think that's the LoA to which Paul was referring)? So if the manufacturer says IFR was a no-go, then it doesn't matter if the plane was built before 20XX (assume 2010 for argument's sake) and has all the certified equipment (engine and avionics) -- still can't legally fly into IMC.

Or have I completely misunderstood everything?

[dstclair]

Correct in that the manufacturer must allow (or not disallow) IMC in the operating limitations. The mechanism could be an LOA or an issuance of new limitations for a specific serial number.

The other part of your statement is incorrect -- you do not require certified anything unless the manufacturer makes it a requirement. FAR 91.205 does not mention certified at all.

[CTLSi]

......

[FastEddieB]

To add to your wrinkle, the Flight Design CTLS POH does not restrict IFR flight.

I just found a CTLS POH online.

Under Part 2 - Limitations, Paragraph 2.8 says "Flight into IMC is prohibited".

Has that Limitation been removed in the current POH?

From 2011, I think.

http://www.northcoastair.com/documents/ ... 20CTLS.pdf

Interestingly, Paragraph 2.10, while still limiting one to VMC conditions, does say it can operated under IFR flight rules if equipped.

I read that as saying you could file IFR, but would have to maintain VMC.

Right?

[CTLSi]

......

[AJChenMPH]

The other part of your statement is incorrect -- you do not require certified anything unless the manufacturer makes it a requirement. FAR 91.205 does not mention certified at all.

Interesting, I would have totally not expected the FAA to be that lenient with the certified equipment thing. Although, perhaps that does explain why I saw a listing for a Tecnam Sierra for sale that was "IFR legal" and I was thinking that it was a bit light on avionics. Thanks for the clarification.

Interestingly, Paragraph 2.10, while still limiting one to VMC conditions, does say it can operated under IFR flight rules if equipped.

I read that as saying you could file IFR, but would have to maintain VMC.

Right?

That's how I would interpret it.

Wonder why they offer the ability to fly IFR with equipment upgrades then?

I suppose for three reasons:

1. If you're an instrument-rated pilot, you can file an IFR flight plan (if you want to be continuously controlled by ATC for your entire flight) even though it's VMC.

2. Train for your instrument rating with a CFII, albeit under VMC.

3. Practice IFR flying while under VMC.

[BrianL99]

Wonder why they offer the ability to fly IFR with equipment upgrades then?

I suppose for three reasons:

1. If you're an instrument-rated pilot, you can file an IFR flight plan (if you want to be continuously controlled by ATC for your entire flight) even though it's VMC.

2. Train for your instrument rating with a CFII, albeit under VMC.

3. Practice IFR flying while under VMC.[/quote]


Unless I'm missing something somewhere, an airplane does not have to meet IFR flight requirements to be used for Instrument Training under VMC nor do you need an IFR Certified aircraft to "practice IFR under VMC".

[CTLSi]

......

[drseti]

Unless I'm missing something somewhere, an airplane does not have to meet IFR flight requirements to be used for Instrument Training under VMC nor do you need an IFR Certified aircraft to "practice IFR under VMC".

That's my understanding too, Brian. My primary trainer is definitely VFR only, and I certainly use it to deliver Instrument instruction (in VMC, of course).

[3Dreaming]

Any SLSA with a Rotax certified engine and a navcom radio can be flown IFR. Of course, no Sport Pilot can fly it. To fly under an IFR flight plan or fly in IMC the PIC must be a PP with an IR.

I plan to upgrade my radio to a Garmin navcom and train in non IMC in my CTLSi in a few months. That's anticipating the certified Flight Design C4 and being able to fly full IMC with an instrument rating.

ASTM standards prohibit flight in IMC until IFR standards are established. The FAA also adopted this policy in 2010.

I don't see where the FAA has adopted the policy. The only FAR on the subject is the requirement for a certified engine. Rotax makes such engines. If you have a link to any information on a final FAA decision please post a link, it may change my direction using my own plane for the training.

It's pretty simple. To have a airworthiness certificate issued the airplane must meet ASTM standards. ASTM standards say that any light sport aircraft can not be flown in IMC, until such standards are established?

[AJChenMPH]

So essentially, if I can find a 2009 or older LSA with a certified engine, make sure it has the required avionics (certified or not), and get the manufacturer's blessing in writing, I'm good to go? (This assumes I have my PPL with instrument rating and my Class 3 medical.)

[drseti]

Actually, Andy, you can't get the manufacturer's blessing after the fact - that ship has sailed. IFR would have to have been written into the plane's Operating Limitations at the time it received its Special Airworthiness Certificate. But, there are a few pre-2010 LSAs out there so authorized.
The Zenith 610 that Tronguy used to own is a prime example. Jay, if you are lurking, perhaps you'd care to elaborate.