light sport IFR

[FastEddieB]

...heck, most of the time they won't even acknowledge you at all flying VFR outside controlled airspace.

This has not been my experience at all.

[Nomore767]

One can file and fly an IFR flight plan without entering IMC. The plan should be created and flown on clear weather days and on a clear weather route.

Why bother? To get ATC priority, flight following and separation. Flying VFR most often means no flight following is provided, heck, most of the time they won't even acknowledge you at all flying VFR outside controlled airspace.

Side note: the thread is about LSA aircraft flying IFR. not sport pilots flying IFR.

Okay you can FILE and IFR flight plan BUT if you ACCEPT an IFR flight plan then you're considered IFR and if you aren't IFR rated or current, and neither is your airplane, then you're illegal.

There are some plots who finesse the process by filing IFR and put a VFR altitude in the block and comment 'requesting flight following' and whilst some ATCs will accept it this way be VERY CAREFUL that in doing so you don't inadvertently accept an IFR clearance, and be illegal. ATC are blocking airspace for YOU and this is largely because of what they EXPECT you to do should you lose all comm capability.
WHY bother putting yourself in jeopardy? At a big field contact Clearance delivery and request VFR flight following with direct, altitude and destination and they'll creat a strip. How do I know? I just did this several times on my flight home from Oregon and it worked great at Tucson, El Paso and Columbus GA.
If no clearance frequency, try asking on Ground freq prior to start up. It gives them time to contact Departure an again creat the strip and they'll be expecting you. Heck, at Columbus GA, the controller was so accommodating that she said she'd put in a strip for me for after I landed and go gas. Sure enough, I contacted departure and they were expecting me.

One of the parts about sport pilots getting checked out into Class B, C and D airspaces is that this type of thing can be covered. ATC doesn't want some nit-wit who thinks he's gaming the system from running around higher performance traffic on real IFR flight plans.


Side note : the thread is titled:- "Light Sport IFR" not "Light Sport aircraft flying IFR". Big difference.

61.3(e) says:

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

The moment you accept an IFR clearance, you're IFR, and if there's nobody on your plane that is qualified to act as PIC under IFR (PP, IR, current for passengers, current for IFR, current medical, any necessary endorsements (e.g. HP, complex)), then you're violating the FARs.

[MrMorden]

One can file and fly an IFR flight plan without entering IMC. The plan should be created and flown on clear weather days and on a clear weather route.

Why bother? To get ATC priority, flight following and separation. Flying VFR most often means no flight following is provided, heck, most of the time they won't even acknowledge you at all flying VFR outside controlled airspace.

Side note: the thread is about LSA aircraft flying IFR. not sport pilots flying IFR.

You can file IFR and never hit a IMC...but from what I understand, you must be IMC capable. If not you are breaking the regs, regardless of whether actual IMC comes up on the flight.

The flight following comments you made are not my experience *at all*. I got Flight Following the entire 500 miles from North Georgia to lower central Florida and back, never once entering controlled airspace; the only time I lost it was when I was forced low enough by weather that radio reception became impossible. The controllers around here are happy to give you FF if they are able and are very courteous and helpful.

[Merlinspop]

There are some plots who finesse the process by filing IFR and put a VFR altitude in the block....

Granted a VERY narrowly defined process and a specific purpose, but this is exactly how to file a SFRA flight plan so that they can find the strip when you call up.

My personal opinion on this topic: I'd just as soon keep Light Sport Aircraft, and pilots exercising Sport Pilot privileges out of IFR. At least for now. I do miss being able to fly on a clear, still night, though.

[FastEddieB]

I got Flight Following the entire 500 miles from North Georgia to lower central Florida and back, never once entering controlled airspace...

As an exercise...

...review your route of flight, and the altitudes you flew at, and I think you may find you were in controlled airspace of one form or another for much of the route.

But I agree with your overall point - I've been pretty much all over the country, and I'd say about 90% of the time there's no issue getting ATC assistance via flight following. The other 10% they're just too busy to accommodate - "workload permitting", you know!

[MovingOn]

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[MovingOn]

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[Nomore767]

There are some plots who finesse the process by filing IFR and put a VFR altitude in the block....

Granted a VERY narrowly defined process and a specific purpose, but this is exactly how to file a SFRA flight plan so that they can find the strip when you call up.

My personal opinion on this topic: I'd just as soon keep Light Sport Aircraft, and pilots exercising Sport Pilot privileges out of IFR. At least for now. I do miss being able to fly on a clear, still night, though.

Bruce,

Sure, and the SFRA is a procedure that is taught to pilots who are specifically going to use it in that airspace.

Also, whilst there's nothing wrong with asking for flight following that way, my point is/was that the pilot should be careful not to accept an IFR clearance, even if they think it's their FF clearance. Some ATCs are okay with a VFR pilot doing it this way whereas others aren't.
Either way, accepting an IFR clearance when not qualified, current or in an IFR airplane is illegal.

Like you, I do miss the zen of IFR flying, but not that much, especially when you don't get paid for it!

[Nomore767]

One can file and fly an IFR flight plan without entering IMC. The plan should be created and flown on clear weather days and on a clear weather route.

Why bother? To get ATC priority, flight following and separation. Flying VFR most often means no flight following is provided, heck, most of the time they won't even acknowledge you at all flying VFR outside controlled airspace.

Side note: the thread is about LSA aircraft flying IFR. not sport pilots flying IFR.

Not without an instrument rating can one file IFR and accept an IFR clearance. In that case, you better be equipped and current to fly actual IMC regardless of the weather.

Technically, anyone can FILE an IFR flight plan….but only an IFR qualified AND current pilot in an IFR qualified airplane can ACCEPT the clearance.

BTW…the weather is actually incidental to an IFR clearance. You can file and fly IFR in IMC or VMC…IFR stands for instrument flight RULES as in the procedures and regs you have to follow to fly under IFR. You can fly IFR all day in full VFR but you must still be IFR qualified, current and so must the airplane.

[MrMorden]

I got Flight Following the entire 500 miles from North Georgia to lower central Florida and back, never once entering controlled airspace...

As an exercise...

...review your route of flight, and the altitudes you flew at, and I think you may find you were in controlled airspace of one form or another for much of the route.

Yes, yes...I meant airspace under a specific controlling authority, such as Class D, C, B, or inside a Mode C veil. I did pass through some MOAs, and yes I know class E is technically controlled airspace. I was just speaking to the spirit of the discussion as I interpreted it. I didn't pass through any highly controlled airspace that required ATC interaction.

[3Dreaming]

Light sport implies aircraft and sport pilot implies pilot. One should not confuse the two. There have been private pilots who have flown IFR in IMC in light sport aircraft. Back before ASTM and the FAA changed the fact that a LSA can not be flown in IMC there were some incidents / accidents with LSA being flown in IMC. One I remember being talked about was the fuel vents freezing over and the engine quitting.
For IFR flight in any aircraft you must have the equipment required for the facilities you are going to use, and you must have had a pitot/static and altimeter / transponder check within the preceding 24 calendar months.
The pilot must be current IFR. There is nothing that says you must be able to go IMC.
If you have a LSA that has the equipment and you have had the required checks done you can file IFR and fly in the national airspace system. This does depend on the fact that you as a pilot are legal to file IFR. This works great for flight training. If the controller gives you instructions that will cause you to go IMC simply state unable, or cancel IFR. There are people doing flight training in both LSA and standard category aircraft that are not certified for flight in IMC conditions

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[FastEddieB]

I got Flight Following the entire 500 miles from North Georgia to lower central Florida and back, never once entering controlled airspace...

As an exercise...

...review your route of flight, and the altitudes you flew at, and I think you may find you were in controlled airspace of one form or another for much of the route.

Yes, yes...I meant airspace under a specific controlling authority...

Got it!

I was getting ready for my own BFR last week, and had just reviewed the whole damn alphabet soup, so it was kind of on my mind.

[Nomore767]

Anyone can file an IFR flight plan….let's not get into a quibble fest.

Thing is…whomever files the flight plan needs to make sure the PIC listed IS a qualified and current IFR pilot. If you accept an IFR clearance, you HAVE to be qualified and IFR current.
Also, as Bruce said, filing into the SFRA, can and is done by VFR pilots filing IFR (checking the IFR box) and putting SFRA in the remarks box. Forget this and ATC can and will give you grief.
Similarly, some VFR pilots are requesting flight following by filing a flight plan, checking the IFR box, requesting a VFR altitude in that box, and then Flight Following in the remarks box. I don't think it's a great technique…for flight following.. but.. as it's done for the SFRA, ATC seems to be okay with it, more so in the East and West Coast ATCs.

Have we beat this to death yet?