LSA Values Declining?

[Merlinspop]

Excellent points, Jack.

[designrs]

This!

"The core problem with the light sport rule and the LSA industry is that it’s built on a negative- the no medical requirement. I have flown many LSAs I enjoy the recreational aspect of one. But I’ll tell you my non-pilot friends feel a whole safer in a Cirrus

The entire industry has grown up on the premise that a select group of pilots have to compromise in order to fly- pilots who fear losing their medical. If the FAA adopts the AOPA medical petition (which I will be surprised if it does) where will LSAs be then?

The planes should sell on their own merit and the light sport ticket should thrive on its own merits. I don’t think we’re there."

~ Above quoted from Andrew Schmertz on AirFactsJournal.

I disagree with the Cirrus comment, as there are some near equally comfortable LSA's.
Comfort doesn't equate to safety or incident statistics either.

Some LSA's have enough to stand on their own merits, some may not.

If the medical petition passes, I would suspect that LSA will continue to be a "different type of plane that's right for some people", another variation of many aircraft options... like ultralights, gliders, taildraggers, aerobatic, kit build, etc.

Look at a few fantastic LSA examples:
CarbonCub SS: Huge niche market! What's not to like if that type of plane is your thing?
PiperSport / SportCruiser / Bristell: Comfortable and modern aircraft at less than half the price of larger more expensive planes.
Van's RV-12: It's a Vans in a smaller package, with the large kit company behind it. Lots of community support.
Sky Arrow: Very, very cool aircraft if that's your thing.
CT: High wing, easy entry access, progressive company, aggressive product development, large following.
Tecnam: Some great products in several configurations
SeaRey: It that's your mission. Wow!
.. and many more of course!

People will likely NOT be buying LSA for the medical exemption.
They would have to buy for the aircraft... and it most likely will be a smaller market... which is already fairly small.

Million dollar question:
After the medical petition, are people still going to pay nearly the same money for these planes?

Even if there were buyers willing to pay... it's reasonable to suspect that there may be less buyers!

[Merlinspop]

Look at a few fantastic LSA examples:
CarbonCub SS: Huge niche market! What's not to like if that type of plane is your thing?

Million dollar question:
After the medical petition, are people still going to pay nearly the same money for these planes?

Even if there were buyers willing to pay... it's reasonable to suspect that there may be less buyers!

Knowing how 'out in front' CubCrafters has been all along, I would be shocked if they don't have multiple plans ready to execute. I think for them, AND a lot of LSA builders, it's the Part 23 rewrite that has their strongest interest. If Part 23 changed to more of a consensus type standard like the LSA standard, some of the better positioned LSA players will jump on it. CubCrafters has already physically tested the Carbon Cub to above Utility Category standards @ 1865 pounds. Certifying it to, say, #1600 pounds or so would still leave marketing room for the U-AB version, and keep from taking too many sales away from their Top Cub, which maxes out at 2300#, I believe.

I'd really be surprised if FD, Tecnam and at least one or two others isn't poised to do the same thing with one or two of their own models. I doubt the legacy manufacturers will be as agile as the LSA folks are, which would give the LSA manufacturers an initial advantage.

[MrLupin]

This!

"The core problem with the light sport rule and the LSA industry is that it’s built on a negative- the no medical requirement. I have flown many LSAs I enjoy the recreational aspect of one. But I’ll tell you my non-pilot friends feel a whole safer in a Cirrus

The entire industry has grown up on the premise that a select group of pilots have to compromise in order to fly- pilots who fear losing their medical. If the FAA adopts the AOPA medical petition (which I will be surprised if it does) where will LSAs be then?

Any idea why Andrew doubts the FAA would adopt the APOA medical petition? Is he perhaps thinking that they will make a change, just not one as "drastic" as the AOPA/EAA petition?

[IFlyRC]

Personally I'm drawn to LSAs for the cheaper entry price, running costs, etc. LSAs make a lot of sense for commuting if you're just one person. The medical issue (for me) isn't that big of a deal, and if the LSA manufacturers came out with an upgraded model (speed, payload and especially safety), then I'd follow them there. I do like the "sporty" nature of LSAs, though. Compared to older airframes like the 172. Hopefully that doesn't get lost in the transition.

[CTLSi]

......

[drseti]

If you are like me and like the design, state of the art avionics, low fuel burn, extra wide cabin and far superior view out the cockpit, and are willing to pay more for it up front, get a Flight Design CTLSi

Or, any of over a dozen other, equally nice SLSAs!

[Wm.Ince]

If you are like me and like the design, state of the art avionics, low fuel burn, extra wide cabin and far superior view out the cockpit, and are willing to pay more for it up front, get a Flight Design CTLSi

Or, any of over a dozen other, equally nice SLSAs!

I looked at all those Paul and the CTLSi is too heavy. There are several other good alternatives which allow a much better payload.
Payload should not be overlooked. . . .

[IFlyRC]

Good point. I did consider used 172s (or 150s) once upon a time, actually. I probably would never own more than one aircraft during my lifetime, and it's kind of nice to get "the one" right up front. It might take me a longer time than most on here to save up to buy new, but it's worth it in my book. An LSA isn't cheap, but it's do-abe. I'm a bit of a tech geek anyways, so new, cutting edge technology, research, avionics, etc. is exciting and appealing as well.

[designrs]

Payload is a huge factor for many buyers.
My guess: the initial medical petition response is not going to change the certification of aircraft. There are enough pilot medical issues to address without complicating things further about expanding ASTM certification at this time. (Do experts agree?)

Of course manufacturers that are positioned to increase useful load and certify aircraft beyond the LSA limit will do so. Most LSA manufacturers are probably not positioned to do so... at least by USA FAA standards... yet.

Still 1320# LSA's are going to have to market compete against other aircraft with higher gross weight and payload capability.

For me it's not a big deal. I'm 165#. If I fly solo or with a #165 pound passenger it's just fine.
Even if I took up a 220# passenger that could be fairly easily accommodated.

For pilots that want to fly with two 220# people LSA useful load is big issue when it comes to aircraft selection. Future market values might very well will feel that.

[CTLSi]

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[CharlieTango]

The CTLSi has the same useful load as any other LSA...

My CTSW weights 719lbs and has a useful load of 601lbs.

[FastEddieB]

The CTLSi has the same useful load as any other LSA.

I think you might not know what "useful load" means.

Useful load: The difference between gross take-off weight and basic weight empty.

Since basic empty weight varies among LSA's, so does useful load.

Oh, and let me say "You're welcome!" in advance.

[SportPilot]

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[designrs]

Yes, but there are buyers out there with more than $30k and less than $160k that might appreciate glass. No you don't NEED it for VFR but it is better for some people for some missions. AP is nice in cruise or when multitasking. No matter what your personal preference you can't beat the instant automatic call-outs from system monitoring such as, "Fuel Pressure Low" which will alert you immediately when something out of spec.