Senate passes pilot bill of rights 2

[MrMorden]

I don't know about the sport CFI question. I'm not sure, but can't you train for the sport license with a regular CFI using a sport training curriculum?

Yes you can! The only restriction on CFI type is that hours accumulated with a Sport CFI cannot be counted toward hours for higher ratings like a Private Pilot. But a "regular" CFI can absolutely train Sport Pilots.

[SportPilot]

.......

[Jack Tyler]

To revisit the 'Doctor's Form' for just a moment, most of that discussion strikes me as the tail wagging the dog. The purpose to be served by the required visit - and I surely hope folks are seeing their GP more than once every four years - is for the pilot to be evaluated by a physician regarding his/her fitness to fly. If that consultation and any related testing indicates that fitness is in question, the consequences certainly don't narrow down to what the form records. Pilots who fly in our NAS have a responsibility to their passengers, the rest of us and the entire infrastructure, not just to themselves. For those who are worrying about what the form might reveal, I believe you're taking your eye off the ball. In fact, a good test might be to have a quiet moment, after the consult with your Doc, and ask yourself what the consequences would be if you made a mistake in flight and your medical form was reviewed. If it suggests there is a fitness issue, or the consult suggests seeking further testing, hopefully the responsible pilot will ponder that seriously before making the next flight. It's about one's fitness, not the form.

To Howard's point, it isn't just in the UK or even Europe where recreational flying is painfully more expensive, if available at all. It's everywhere sans the USA. Sometimes we pay lots of attention to the trees and forget the forest. We should all be concerned about maintaining the viability of recreational aviation, which is why PBOR2 is good for all aviation enthusiasts, Sport Pilots included.

[Nomore767]

I was just reading one of the current flying magazines from the UK.

Interestingly they detailed some of their costs for flying:-

Figure a UK pound £ is about $1.50. VAT is Value Added Tax currently set at 20% (they don't have sales tax).

Dual in a PA28-140 £183 hour ( $271)
Solo in a PA28-140 £159 hour ( 236)

Landing fee (not for local training flight but for visiting GA flights) £80 ( $119).

Avgas is £1.51 + VAT or about £1.83 or $2.72 per litre. There are 3.78 litres per US gallon so it would be $6.92

Auto gas at local 'petrol stations' was around £1.10 per litre inc VAT or $6.20 US gallon.

I'm not sure what it would cost to train in a PA28-140 today in the USA but when I was working on my PPL in 1977 in year old PA28-140s it was around $30hour I think. Of course that was then not adjusted for inflation.

[Nomore767]

Another interesting thing about sport flying versus regular GA flying….

...there seems to be a lot of new LSA models coming to market compared to GA. The UK magazine I just read for example featured 2 new models which they reviewed. The only new GA airplane that I can remember being reviewed is the Tecnam 2010.

Considering that there isn't a huge amount of pilots, or prospective pilots, surging to schools to rent or buy LSAs its interesting that so many companies are securing capital to produce more LSA models for the sport market. Glasair still testing their Merlin LSA which is remarkably similar to the Cessna Skycatcher but with composite and a Rotax engine.

Seems that if you want to fly newer more higher tech airplanes then the sport market offers more but I think PBOR 2 is going to galvanize the older GA fleet and hopefully get a lot more flying. I think the refurbishment programs by AOPA and others for refurbished Cessna 150/152 and 172s is an interesting idea and very cost effective, flying being an expensive pastime anyway you look at it.

[Jack Tyler]

Howard, your description of flying costs in Britain are similar to those in Australia, as is the burdensome regulatory presence. While living in Brisbane, I was invited to an outlying aerodrome to meet some of the pilots and learn more about how recreational aviation actually survives in such an environment. One method of coping with the costs was joint ownership. This group of seven pilots/owners had just pooled their money and bought a 2-year old Eurofox, very similar to what we see here being sold as the Aerotrek. Rather than feeling cramped by the large number of owners and fearing scheduling conflicts, they focused on the camaraderie and shared fun of taking turns flying the plane. A pretty typical Aussie response, in my experience. Another means of coping financially was the enormous 'jerry jug fuel farm' in their hangar, something the local fire marshall had I'm sure not yet seen. It lacked a dam and some of those jugs looked elderly, but they were brought in by their various owners, full at the day's beginning, to avoid the 100LL fuel cost at the aerodrome. And almost without exception, all their flying was local since aerodromes were few and far between and many of them assessed landing fees. So here was an active group of 'normal blokes', enjoying both flying and aircraft ownership, and based at a surprisingly active airfield that was not convenient to most of Brisbane. IOW they were finding ways to make it work despite the high costs and hardly friendly bureaucracy. I really admired their shared, positive attitudes about all things aviation, which I don't find mirrored nearly as much by the collection of old sour pilots I often run into here when speaking to clubs, air parks and EAA chapters.

What's ironic about the circumstances I found in Australia is how suitable private aviation is to serving the country's needs. Tho' as big as the U.S., access to the interior via its roadway system is much more limiting, the coastal cities are separated by large distances, it has no counterpart to our Interstate system, and travel at night almost anywhere in the country is risky due to the presence of Roos on all the warm asphalt. (No one does front bumper assemblies like the Aussies!) I met a student pilot who was a lawyer by trade, about 10 years from retiring, and I asked him what led him to begin pilot training. He explained his retirement plan was to have the flexibility to visit all these interesting places in Oz which, so far, he hadn't seen much of. He thought private aviation was a perfect way to accomplish this, given the distances involved. 'So you're planning to buy a plane and fly around the country then?' I asked. 'Oh, no,' he replied, 'that's too expensive. I'll just get rated in one of the more common models, then fly commercial to an interesting destination, rent the local plane and use that to fly around locally.' Now THAT illustrated to me how hard someone has to work, financially and otherwise, to fly in Oz. We are so fortunate here.

[Cluemeister]

Looks like a July deadline may bring pressure on the House.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All- ... horization

[designrs]

Still nauseous from the indefinite waiting...

[MackAttack]

July 15 is not a "deadline." That's just the date on which the interim FAA funding bill runs out. They can always adopt another interim funding bill... The real pressure on the House comes from the 95-3 vote in the Senate - not much major bipartisan legislation coming out these days ... that's what really puts pressure on the House.

But if they can't get a conference bill worked out and voted on by both chambers by the August recess, we probably won't see action until the lame duck Congress after the November elections. And assuming President Obama signs the bill in 3-4 weeks after that, when you add all that time to the time the FAA has to propose and adopt regulations underlying the medical reform ... we could be into early 2018 before medical reform actually takes effect.

In short, don't hold your breath - it could be 18-21 months before this all happens ... even assuming it DOES happen.

Cheers

[designrs]

Indefinitely nauseous waiting...

[Cluemeister]

AVWeb is reporting they've passed PBOR2 in the Senate again, this time included in a defense authorization bill.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Th ... 236-1.html

[MackAttack]

I was just about to post this too ... Could be very significant. This language apparently doesn't have the Nelson amendment which sets up the 4-year Doctor certification... Will be very interesting to see how this all plays out between now and the August recess.

Apparently Sen. Inhofe isn't content to let thins sit and languish in the FAA bill. Washington politics at its best!

[ANewHope]

I don't see any mention of it in the links in AvWebs stories. Are your feelings clear on this matter?

AOPA or EAA report it?

ETA: AOPA is reporting it on their home page.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... m-language

[drseti]

From that article:

Both the Pilot's Bill of Rights 2 and FAA reauthorization are awaiting action in the House, where a controversial plan to privatize air traffic control has stalled all aviation-related legislation.

Almost nobody in the aviation community favors turning over FAA's safety role to a private corporation. If the House keeps insisting on ATC privatization, that could well kill medical reform.

[MackAttack]

I couldn't agree more, Professor ... Which is why Inhofe put it in the defense bill as well. That has its own controversial issues between the House and the Senate ... But better to have two horses in the race rather than just one. The few things I've read about defense bill is that it will be a lame duck session item after the election, not a pre-August recess item like the FAA thing may be if the House comes around. So we will have to wait and see!

Cheers