Of course, one can be a subject to some kind of a civil action if they cause harm but that’s a separate issue and it is between both parties to settle ( or more likely their insurance companies ) - I think we are talking here about FAA coming down on the pilot with some additional violations etc ..TimTaylor wrote:I don't think any intelligent pilot is going to worry about a violation of FAR's in any emergency. However, when the emergency has been successfully dealt with, there may be consequences for the pilot depending on what damages he has caused to people or property on the ground. That is only reasonable. No reasonable thinking person would think a pilot certificate somehow allows you to damage others with immunity, regardless of the cause.
E-AB Question
Moderator: drseti
Re: E-AB Question
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
Re: E-AB Question
I stand by my post. If you cause harm or damage to anyone while operating an aircraft, I maintain you are and should be subject to action by the FAA. That doesn't mean you will be cited, but I don't think it is some sort of overreach if you are. Others can and will disagree, especially those with Libertarian beliefs. This is my opinion. I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me on this.
Retired from flying.
Re: E-AB Question
Why are you referencing politics here? Why should that somehow make a difference?TimTaylor wrote:I stand by my post. If you cause harm or damage to anyone while operating an aircraft, I maintain you are and should be subject to action by the FAA. That doesn't mean you will be cited, but I don't think it is some sort of overreach if you are. Others can and will disagree, especially those with Libertarian beliefs. This is my opinion. I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me on this.
You never did answer this question, so I will ask it again.TimTaylor wrote:Yes, if I land on a highway, I expect a violation. I may not get one, but if I do, I won't be surprised, especially if I cause harm or damage to someone else or property.MrMorden wrote:You swould expect to get violated for a mechanical failure?
During an emergency, if you are exercising your emergency authority, as a pilot in command, what would the violation be for?
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
Re: E-AB Question
Why is nobody discussing the best option for an emergency landing? In over half a century of flying, I've survived four declared inflight emergencies. In all four cases, I put the plane down on a... runway. Altitude (lots of it) was my friend. And situational awareness (where is the nearest runway? Can I make it there?) is vital.
Of course, you should always have a Plan B. Depending on where you are, that might be a field, a road, or something less desirable.
As for violations, I know of none that has ever been issued for exercising one's PIC authority under FAR 91.3(b).
Of course, you should always have a Plan B. Depending on where you are, that might be a field, a road, or something less desirable.
As for violations, I know of none that has ever been issued for exercising one's PIC authority under FAR 91.3(b).
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: E-AB Question
I was thinking of this when I was typing my last response. The Florida sectional is littered with airports all over the place and with enough altitude you'll make it to one if not two. Last time I checked Florida has the highest count in the country for the number of airports, this is reassuring to me in an emergency situation. I think we'd all prefer a runway over ANYWHERE else but as you said, have a "plan b" if that's not an option.drseti wrote:Why is nobody discussing the best option for an emergency landing? In over half a century of flying, I've survived four declared inflight emergencies. In all four cases, I put the plane down on a... runway. Altitude (lots of it) was my friend. And situational awareness (where is the nearest runway? Can I make it there?) is vital.
Of course, you should always have a Plan B. Depending on where you are, that might be a field, a road, or something less desirable.
As for violations, I know of none that has ever been issued for exercising one's PIC authority under FAR 91.3(b).
Re: E-AB Question
I was flying with a student who had started training elsewhere. Our airport has crossing runways. I did a simulated power failure just as he was turning downwind. He immediately turned away from the airport looking for a field to land in. I had to scratch my head. All of his emergency training had been to find a field to land in, so that was what he was going to do. After a little discussion I think he decided that there are more options than finding a field, like a perfectly good airport.drseti wrote:Why is nobody discussing the best option for an emergency landing? In over half a century of flying, I've survived four declared inflight emergencies. In all four cases, I put the plane down on a... runway. Altitude (lots of it) was my friend. And situational awareness (where is the nearest runway? Can I make it there?) is vital.
Of course, you should always have a Plan B. Depending on where you are, that might be a field, a road, or something less desirable.
As for violations, I know of none that has ever been issued for exercising one's PIC authority under FAR 91.3(b).
Re: E-AB Question
I would of course expect restitution to be required for damages. But that should be between the persons or property owners, the pilot, and the courts if necessary. The FAA shouldn't be involved.TimTaylor wrote:I don't think any intelligent pilot is going to worry about a violation of FAR's in any emergency. However, when the emergency has been successfully dealt with, there may be consequences for the pilot depending on what damages he has caused to people or property on the ground. That is only reasonable. No reasonable thinking person would think a pilot certificate somehow allows you to damage others with immunity, regardless of the cause.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Re: E-AB Question
The scenario discussed was that a road or other area close to private property was the best landing option. Obviously if there's a convenient runway, that makes decision making much easier!drseti wrote:Why is nobody discussing the best option for an emergency landing? In over half a century of flying, I've survived four declared inflight emergencies. In all four cases, I put the plane down on a... runway. Altitude (lots of it) was my friend. And situational awareness (where is the nearest runway? Can I make it there?) is vital.
BTW using Garmin Pilot, it constantly calculates a glide distance ring based on altitude, wind, the input glide ratio of the airplane, etc. I was descending through 8000ft the other day and the ring showed an airport 12nm away that it said I should be able to make. I set best glide and pointed at it. I broke off at 1nm from the runway, but if anything I was high and would have made it easily. Tools like that can really help the adrenaline-addled pilot determine what his/her options really are in a situation like that.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Re: E-AB Question
Why even engage in the conversation if your opinion is set in stone, and you don't care at all what anybody else thinks?TimTaylor wrote:I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me on this.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
- FastEddieB
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: E-AB Question
Most of my flying career was based in S FL, so no argument there.ShawnM wrote:The Florida sectional is littered with airports all over the place and with enough altitude you'll make it to one if not two. Last time I checked Florida has the highest count in the country for the number of airports, this is reassuring to me in an emergency situation.
But things are very different ‘round these here parts:
Copperhill Airport is the near vertical line next to the “G” in “Google”. And I mostly fly north from there.
Once the few green fields are behind me, options are sorely limited. Any stretch of unobstructed road would at least get some consideration.
Re: E-AB Question
That kind of area is a good argument for a ballistic parachute. Is it an option on the Sky Arrow?FastEddieB wrote: Once the few green fields are behind me, options are sorely limited. Any stretch of unobstructed road would at least get some consideration.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
- FastEddieB
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: E-AB Question
Not that I’m aware of. Weight would be an issue, plus locating the shrouds so as not to get entangled in the pusher prop could be problematical.MrMorden wrote:
That kind of area is a good argument for a ballistic parachute. Is it an option on the Sky Arrow?
Re: E-AB Question
Why are you referencing politics here? Why should that somehow make a difference?TimTaylor wrote:I stand by my post. If you cause harm or damage to anyone while operating an aircraft, I maintain you are and should be subject to action by the FAA. That doesn't mean you will be cited, but I don't think it is some sort of overreach if you are. Others can and will disagree, especially those with Libertarian beliefs. This is my opinion. I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me on this.
You never did answer this question, so I will ask it again.TimTaylor wrote:Yes, if I land on a highway, I expect a violation. I may not get one, but if I do, I won't be surprised, especially if I cause harm or damage to someone else or property.MrMorden wrote:You would expect to get violated for a mechanical failure?
During an emergency, if you are exercising your emergency authority, as a pilot in command, what would the violation be for?
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
Re: E-AB Question
Concur.Warmi wrote:Of course, one can be a subject to some kind of a civil action if they cause harm but that’s a separate issue and it is between both parties to settle ( or more likely their insurance companies ) - I think we are talking here about FAA coming down on the pilot with some additional violations etc ..
"Violations?" keep popping up here, but nobody yet . . . has identified what specific "violation" would be cited.
If I feared getting 'violated" every time I flew, I think it would be time to permanently hang up the headset.
Thank goodness it hasn't come down to that yet.
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
Re: E-AB Question
OMG, the pucker factor went up for me just sitting at my desk.FastEddieB wrote:Most of my flying career was based in S FL, so no argument there.
But things are very different ‘round these here parts:
Copperhill Airport is the near vertical line next to the “G” in “Google”. And I mostly fly north from there.
Once the few green fields are behind me, options are sorely limited. Any stretch of unobstructed road would at least get some consideration.
Fly safe and remember, altitude is your friend, especially in that sea of green.