Sport first then Private

[MovingOn]

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[3Dreaming]

Another "straw man." I never said I would advise anyone not to fly an LSA. If someone is going for a Private to fly a 4 place certified aircraft, and if they have the time and money to do it relatively quickly, I would definitely advise him to do it in the plane he intends to rent. I would find the FBO I want to rent from and see if they have a good flight training program with good instructors. If so, that's where I would learn to fly. If I was going to rent 172's, I would learn in a 172 and take my checkride in a 172. Then, I would very quickly start working on an instrument rating in the 172.

If I was on the fence about getting a Private, and just anxious to take my wife for an airplane ride, it would be different. If there were LSA's available and the prices were reasonable, I might go with LSA and get a Sport Pilot certificate first. It is not a "one size fits all" situation, in my opinion. We don't have to agree on this. There are a lot of pilots who will never fly an LSA or have a reason to fly an LSA.

Your words, " I would not advise he fool around with LSA"

[MovingOn]

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[3Dreaming]

BTW all aircraft are certified when they receive their airworthiness certificate, even LSA's

[MovingOn]

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[Merlinspop]

I agree that if someone has the ultimate goal of exercising PPL privileges, and has the means, time and support (if a significant other is involved), then it makes better sense, to me, to go straight to the PPL. [edit: any medical concerns notwithstanding]

I'm thinking of my friend, James. He has ample funds, and he and his fiancée desire to travel and explore via GA. But his time is limited and he doesn't want to start until he knows he'll be able to devote the time to see it all the way through. He's been in this 'holding pattern' for at least 2 years now. He could have easily gotten his SPL and the two of them could be out flying on this beautiful late Spring day. But all he sees are the limitations of the SPL. I know that a lot of it setting priorities, but tasting the freedom of traveling by LSA, I believe, would give him the encouragement to get the rest done.

[MovingOn]

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[CTLSi]

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[3Dreaming]

The differences between Sport and Private are small in terms of min flying requirements. For instance Private requires 3 hour min night flying xcountry with 10 landings, a longer solo xcountry over over 150nm, and two hours extra of under hood training.

There are a few differences on the written too, VOR the chief one. And there are more questions, 40 versus 60.

Getting a Sport before Private is really about the extra cost of taking the written again, and two checkride fees. The PTS standards for Sport and Private are the same.

Unless you think you will ever get a Private, get it first and save yourself the expense of two checkrides and restudy for the written. All of this presuming you passed a 3rd class medical before embarking on the Private tract.

Just so you know there is no hour limit on training under the hood for sport pilot, you could only do 1/2 hour. In fact if you are flying an airplane with a Vh< 87kts you don't have to get any instrument training.

[CTLSi]

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[3Dreaming]

The differences between Sport and Private are small in terms of min flying requirements. For instance Private requires 3 hour min night flying xcountry with 10 landings, a longer solo xcountry over over 150nm, and two hours extra of under hood training.

There are a few differences on the written too, VOR the chief one. And there are more questions, 40 versus 60.

Getting a Sport before Private is really about the extra cost of taking the written again, and two checkride fees. The PTS standards for Sport and Private are the same.

Unless you think you will ever get a Private, get it first and save yourself the expense of two checkrides and restudy for the written. All of this presuming you passed a 3rd class medical before embarking on the Private tract.

o

Just so you know there is no hour limit on training under the hood for sport pilot, you could only do 1/2 hour. In fact if you are flying an airplane with a Vh< 87kts you don't have to get any instrument training.

Yes there are speed endorsements, but that is not what I was talking about. If you do your sport pilot in an airplane with a Vh < 87kts you are not required to do any instrument training.
You are correct that for the private there is a 3 hour minimum, but you also have to train to the standard in the PTS.

My wife got a sport license. She did an hour. Yes, Sport has endorsements for above 87kts, and ATC. If a sport pilot doesn't get those, it really restricts flying.

The AOPA has a discussion on the issue: http://tinyurl.com/p365p7b

The requirement has no specified min or max time for Sport, but does for private. It seems silly to go up for half an hour and do the exercise. I imagine sports are getting an hour.

[FastEddieB]

The differences between Sport and Private are small in terms of min flying requirements.

CTLSi,

Just curious...

...which are you going for, or have you already gotten one or the other?

I apologize in advance if you've already posted the answer - I just missed it if you did.

[newamiga]

I earned my SP cert a little over 3 years ago. I flew about 360 hours and a few weeks ago took and passed my PP check ride. I enjoyed flying as a SP. I got my B/C/D endorsements and have flown my LSA all over the country in all kinds of air space. All the time burning very little gas and flying a plane that is only 5 years old. I could not afford to do this with a 5 year old GA plane. My wife enjoys flying with me and my kids don't really. That means two of us in the plane most of the time. It works out very well for this mission.

With all of that said, I do sometimes wish I could go faster and I could get my instrument rating. For this reason, I got my PP and am just starting instrument training. With the flying club I belong to we have a wealth of planes to choose from, including four Cirrus' of various flavors.

I loved doing the SP training and I flew much longer cross countries as a SP than most of my PP friends have flown. To me the restrictions of no night flying and the altitude just wasn't an issue. Even getting my instrument ticket, I want to have it for the experience and training but I doubt I will intentionally go IFR that often.

As is said often, consider the mission for which you fly and get the appropriate ticket based on that. Above all, enjoy every minute in the air.

Carl

[MrMorden]

Just so you know there is no hour limit on training under the hood for sport pilot, you could only do 1/2 hour. In fact if you are flying an airplane with a Vh< 87kts you don't have to get any instrument training.

Yes, Sport has endorsements for above 87kts, and ATC. If a sport pilot doesn't get those, it really restricts flying.

Technically, the Vh > 87 knots is not an endorsement per se, it's a "set". Sport pilot aircraft types are designated in sets; I have a Sport Pilot certificate that includes ONLY set AP-5, which is Airplane, Single Engine Land (ASEL) with Vh > 87 knots. If I want to fly a Cub, I'd have to get an endorsement for the set that applies to ASEL with Vh < 87kt, AND a tailwheel endorsement.

So while it's true you CAN get an endorsement for an airplane with Vh > 87kt, the SP certificate does not necessarily require it. Whatever type of aircraft you get your checkride in will be your "default" or "native" set, and then you can add additional sets via endorsements. Sets include weight shift (trikes), gyroplanes, powered parachute, ASEL < 87kt, ASEL < 87kt, seaplane, and I'm sure a couple of others I'm forgetting.

Just FYI.

[drseti]

Sport pilot aircraft types are designated in sets; I have a Sport Pilot certificate that includes ONLY set AP-5, which is Airplane, Single Engine Land (ASEL) with Vh > 87 knots.

Andy, that was true when the SP rules were implemented in 2004, and was evidently still true when you got your rating. But that FAR was changed when the SP rules were updated in 2010. Sets have now been done away with, replaced by category and class logbook endorsements. See the latest revisions of FAR 61.317 and 61.321. I have an upcoming EAA webinar on the topic, scheduled for some time after Oshkosh; I'll post the details here when I know them.